no spark....HELP!!!

[hunter_1_2_3]

hi i have a fzr600 94 3he model that wont spark,im at my wits end, im a mechanic by trade but am a bit stuck with this, it was running fine, but went to start it the other day and no fire, just churning and churning, the pickup coil is getting 4v with ign, then 7-8v turning over, the ign coil packs are getting 2 constant lives regardless of whether the kill switch is on or off, the stand switch has been removed and by passed for good measure. oh and the engine and body are getting a strong earth. any help would be great. please help?!?!?

[SouthendChris]

I seem to remember that the sidestand switch has a specific resistance and so can't just be bypassed, or that could be later models. Have you double checked the clutch switch? Does your neutral light work ok? Is your 'OIL' light lighting up when you crank the engine?

Turning the kill switch off should turn off the fuel pump (if it's not off already), turning it back on again should see the fuel pump kick in again - if it doesn't you should check continuity at the kill switch.

Chris

[hunter_1_2_3]

yea mate neutral light is on and oil light comes on when cranking, when kill switch is on , the pump kicks in and turns off when the kill switch is off.i dont understand how the ignition coils which seem to earth through the frame are switch powered, they seem to have two constant power supplys all of the time, i would expect one or both to be switched on and off by either the kill switch or the start button?if that makes any sense?

[DonTZ125]

The spark coils are powered by the key switch, and you should see battery voltage under pretty much all conditions. The coils are grounded by the ignition driver transistors, but this happens so fast that a multimeter can't register the change.

You should NOT be seeing this 4vdc at the pickup coil. It is an isolated AC sensor, and any DC voltage reading means something is very wrong, perhaps a frayed or loose wire.

[hunter_1_2_3]

battery voltage is over 12v but the thing thats throwing me is how the ignition coils work, when u put the ignition on they get 2 constant lives, should they not be switchd to power up through the start button or something? but the kill switch appears to be opperating properly.

[hunter_1_2_3]

Think it's the cdi box, it's not sending a spark to the ignition coil pack?

[SouthendChris]

Take a look at a wiring diagram. On some more 'simpler' bikes the kill switch earths the low tension side of the coil conection. On the Fizzer it also kills the fuel pump. Have you tried tapping the relays on the LHS of the bike near the seat, just to see if you have a sticky one.

Coils produce a spark when the 12V is turned OFF not on! It is the fast collapsing magnetic field in the lowT side which induces the spark voltage to be created in the highT side of the coil. Think of a coil as a basic 'transformer'. If you get a 12V feed to a coil that is great - but a constant 12V will not create a spark!

Have you checked your engine earth strap?? As Dontz has said, I would also look at the pickup coils - these are the rpm sensors for the coil and tell the cdi to cut the 12v and create the spark at exactly the right time. Test them for continuity/resistance.

Chris

[hunter_1_2_3]

I will check when I get home as far as I can tell the pickup coil is working I had a multimeter hooked up checkin for resistance and it was beeping while bein turned over, which would say to me its sending a signal. I will check the kill switch but the pump is turnin on an off via the switch an the relay is clicking. The earth strap is good. But I disconnected the ignition coils an put the signal wire close to the engine block an turned it over an it didn spark. The only two things iv touched since it's started not starting is the handle bar switch, which appears to be working and the cooling fan switch, which I by passed because the thermo switch was faulty. So far it's pointing to the tci box but its early yet.

[SouthendChris]

But I disconnected the ignition coils an put the signal wire close to the engine block an turned it over an it didn spark. The only two things iv touched since it's started not starting is the handle bar switch, which appears to be working and the cooling fan switch

I take it when you say 'signal' wire you mean the HT lead that goes to the spark plug yes??? Not the lead that goes from the loom to the coil?? That one wont spark, it's just the 12v line from the TCI.

Just out of interest, take the throttle housing off again and hold it so it isn't touching the handlebars / frame. Try and fire it up with the switchgear assembly in your hand.

With all this cranking and no spark you might wet the plugs, so if it is actually sparking - it might not start. Turn it over with no choke a couple of times and a very small amount of throttle to help dry them out a bit - or pull em out and inspect/dry them I would hate to think you've sorted it but a little oversight is stopping it play ball!

Chris

[hunter_1_2_3]

No I mean the wire goin to the coil, from the tci, I was told by a fella that it would spark when cranking.....obviously not . I opened up the tci for curiosity and it didn't look to have ny components burnt out at a glance, thats not to say it could be somethin completely different, will check handle bar switch when I get home. Cheers for ur help guys, hopefully get this beast on the road soon.

[hunter_1_2_3]

Checked kill switch, it's operating properly, dried an cleaned spark plug an connected it to ht lead and wrapped an earth wire (connectd to earth terminal of battery) around the threads and cranked engine, still no spark. Without soundin completely thick how exactly do u test the pickup coil, do u test the wire disconnected or connected, cranking or not and one wire and a earth or continuity between the wires? would a standard multi meter test it alright?

[SouthendChris]

Stick the battery on slow charge for an hour. Hook up a car battery to jump it from. Do you still have the sidestand switch?? Put it back on. Pull in the clutch and crank it over. Remember no choke for the first 3 or 4 goes, then give it half choke, then give it a tiny amount of throttle.

Chris

[SouthendChris]

The pickup coil is something akin to a TDC sensor in a car. It is a little coil in a box which generates a signal when the magnet on the flywheel goes flying (close) by. Because all it is is a coil you can measure it's resistance. If it's very high then it's probably kippered. I would think the manual gives its specific resistance. You would need a multimeter that could read AC to get an output from it, even then it would be loooow.

[hunter_1_2_3]

Can't get a break, fuel pump has just quit!lol. The wee cheap project is startin to add up, Bidding on one on eBay, got battery on charge anyway. I see u had a 94 3he Chris, wat do u think of them mate? Disconnected the coil pickup though and checked resistance each wire to ground which was (infinity) which is what it should be but the resistance between both wires was a bit lower than specified, it said it should b between 135-165 ohms, I got around 100 ohms but it's under 68 degrees F n my garage if that would account for anythin?

[SouthendChris]

I really liked it. Cheap to insure as they are nearly classed as classics now Comfortable ish to ride. I didnt have on the road long enough to really get mpg figures out of it but I think I was getting 45mpg. Simple to work on. Mine had sat for 6 years, inside luckily. All I had to do was re commision it - all new fluids everywhere, new tyres, new sprockets, clutch, battery and a couple of other bits. With the new modern rubber it was a great road bike............ Was written off by an old blind codger turning right in January

Well if the manual says 135-165ohms then I guess yours is out of spec. Looking at the parts book it says that the pickup is only available with the stator ££££££'s

Looking at the FZR400 1WG manual it says the pickup coil resistance is 85-115ohms. I'd take a punt and say your 600 one is prob ok. The pickup is a totally separate part in reality and could be changed on it's own but you'd have to tape up the stator/pickup subloom after you'd picked the wires out.

try http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251088087813

Wiring diagram http://fzronline.com/wiki/lib/exe/fetch ... iagram.gif

You got the service manual I take it?

You seem to be hitting more problems the more you delve! Maybe either your TCI/CDI is giving up the ghost or the big relay on the side is!! Test the pump across some battery terminals before you decide to toss it!!

Chris