Few questions

[djimass]

Hey guys,

Haven't written anything on this site in a long time... Have a few questions about different things and I hope you can be as helpful as you always are.

1) My left fork seal is "sweating" and I have decided to change my seals on both forks since I've had the bike for 6+ years and I've never changed them. Two questions: a) is it really necessary to change the fork tube bushings as well, as the local mechanic has hinted, or do I just need to change the oil seals? b) If my dust seals look good, can I re-use them?

2) I did a shock swap about 3 years ago; unfortunately, it was the FZ1 shock that I put in and not the R6 shock. It handles great (I have an aftermarket spring in it) but the end of the reservoir hit the front torque arm mounting bolt. Anyone know how to increase the clearance between the nitrogen reservoir and the torque arm bolt? I'm afraid the reservoir might get punctured in the future...

3) My bike is going to see extensive track time in the future. What's the beat sprocket combo I can use? 14-47?

4) I have Nissin front master cylinder with SS braided lines and R6 calipers. I can't for the life of me figure out how to attach the fluid reservoir. Does someone have close-up pics of your setup? That would be really appreciated.

Thanks for all your help.

[SquadraCorse]

Fork guides will depend on how many miles you have. I didn't replace mine and just did the seals.

Sprocket combo will depend on track. I imagine your stock gearing is fine.

For my R6 master I made a bracket and attached it to the top tree. It just clears the fairing brace.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-08uD4O2VML0/T ... 041084.JPG

[djimass]

Thanks for the reply! the bracket looks simple enough. I suppose you drilled a hole in the triple tree to attach the master, right?

[yamaha_george]

Hey guys,

1) My left fork seal is "sweating" and I have decided to change my seals on both forks since I've had the bike for 6+ years and I've never changed them. Two questions: a) is it really necessary to change the fork tube bushings as well, as the local mechanic has hinted, or do I just need to change the oil seals? b) If my dust seals look good, can I re-use them? {/quote]

the only way to know for sure is by checking them upon dis-assembly, most times it is not an absolute requirement. Same goes for dust caps

2) I did a shock swap about 3 years ago; unfortunately, it was the FZ1 shock that I put in and not the R6 shock. It handles great (I have an aftermarket spring in it) but the end of the reservoir hit the front torque arm mounting bolt. Anyone know how to increase the clearance between the nitrogen reservoir and the torque arm bolt? I'm afraid the reservoir might get punctured in the future...

Yes take out the torque arm and do as I did see:-

http://www.saltmine.org.uk/fzr/swingarm.html

2nd half of the page is the relevant bit

3) My bike is going to see extensive track time in the future. What's the beat sprocket combo I can use? 14-47?

4) I have Nissin front master cylinder with SS braided lines and R6 calipers. I can't for the life of me figure out how to attach the fluid reservoir. Does someone have close-up pics of your setup? That would be really appreciated.

Thanks for all your help.

see:- http://www.saltmine.org.uk/fzr/frontbrakes.html

[djimass]

Brilliant Yamaha_George! Thanks!

[yamaha_george]

Brilliant Yamaha_George! Thanks!

DJM,
your welcome

[reelrazor]

Geo,

Am I correct in assuming that you now have a floating caliper in the rear?

Tied to teh frame and not the swingarm itself?

How much improvement in braking did that offer you?

One of my old RZ's was setup like that and it was very good for trail braking

[yamaha_george]

Geo,

Am I correct in assuming that you now have a floating caliper in the rear?

Tied to teh frame and not the swingarm itself?

How much improvement in braking did that offer you?

One of my old RZ's was setup like that and it was very good for trail braking

RR,
it really depends on the geometry that you use for the anchor points of the tie bar. If you look at MotoGP bikes as far back as 1980's their rear brake system is almost a parollelogram, with the tie bar running parallel to the swing arm and the line thro the axle to the caliper/bar fixing point parallel to the line thro the swing arm pivot to the other end of the tie bar.

You will see this on "Bluestreak " that i did underslung caliper & the GP brakes here:

http://www.saltmine.org.uk/kgb/bluestreak.html

On "Yellow Peril" done slightly differently with Ducati bits & Kawa bits:-

http://www.saltmine.org.uk/kgb/yp4.html

http://www.saltmine.org.uk/pics/yp-complete-rearend.jpg

On the FZR:-

http://www.saltmine.org.uk/pics/brk-tie-rod1.jpg

http://www.saltmine.org.uk/pics/brk-tie-rod-frame1.jpg

The one thing I found with all of these is that the rear suspension still works under braking which the standard setup did not (or at least it felt as though the bikes rear tyre was hopping )

The roads that the originals were tested on were quite rough and going thro corners at 3 figure speeds were not an option (well most of the time ) with standard braking set ups afterwards the the bike setup inspired confidence and certain corners began to see regular 3 figure speeds.

You can read up more on squat & anti-squat (the proper name of what I am blathering on about) in Tony Foale's & John Bradbury's books frpm the library (ISBN numbers are in the WIKI ) <BG>

[reelrazor]

RR,
it really depends on the geometry that you use for the anchor points of the tie bar. If you look at MotoGP bikes as far back as 1980's their rear brake system is almost a parollelogram, with the tie bar running parallel to the swing arm and the line thro the axle to the caliper/bar fixing point parallel to the line thro the swing arm pivot to the other end of the tie bar.


The one thing I found with all of these is that the rear suspension still works under braking which the standard setup did not (or at least it felt as though the bikes rear tyre was hopping )

The roads that the originals were tested on were quite rough and going thro corners at 3 figure speeds were not an option (well most of the time ) with standard braking set ups afterwards the the bike setup inspired confidence and certain corners began to see regular 3 figure speeds.

You can read up more on squat & anti-squat (the proper name of what I am blathering on about) in Tony Foale's & John Bradbury's books frpm the library (ISBN numbers are in the WIKI ) <BG>

Yeah, I understand the squat/anti-squat thing. It's why it was done to my old RZ. I own a couple of Foale's books and a couple from the GP technology series. It was info from them that prompted my interest in linkage antidive front ends, and floating rear calipers.

What I guess I was asking is did you actively seek this effect? Did you make any attempt at allowing the caliper hanger to pivot freely? Or is the caliper hanger under normal clamping load by the axle pinching the swingarm against the wheel spacer/bearings/captured sleeve/and brake hanger stack, and therefore immovable? And, if that IS the case, how has that been as far as conflict between your torque arm and the caliper hanger? Seeing that the master cylinder bolt you tied off to is NOT in line with, or concentric to the swingarm pivot, and the caliper bracket is kept 'x' distance from it...there is the potential to immobilize the rear suspension entirely whilst braking.

Or, were there maths involved to prevent this?

If so, they should be pointed out to Djimass before he goes forward with this kind of mod.

[djimass]

RR,
it really depends on the geometry that you use for the anchor points of the tie bar. If you look at MotoGP bikes as far back as 1980's their rear brake system is almost a parollelogram, with the tie bar running parallel to the swing arm and the line thro the axle to the caliper/bar fixing point parallel to the line thro the swing arm pivot to the other end of the tie bar.


The one thing I found with all of these is that the rear suspension still works under braking which the standard setup did not (or at least it felt as though the bikes rear tyre was hopping )

The roads that the originals were tested on were quite rough and going thro corners at 3 figure speeds were not an option (well most of the time ) with standard braking set ups afterwards the the bike setup inspired confidence and certain corners began to see regular 3 figure speeds.

You can read up more on squat & anti-squat (the proper name of what I am blathering on about) in Tony Foale's & John Bradbury's books frpm the library (ISBN numbers are in the WIKI ) <BG>

Yeah, I understand the squat/anti-squat thing. It's why it was done to my old RZ. I own a couple of Foale's books and a couple from the GP technology series. It was info from them that prompted my interest in linkage antidive front ends, and floating rear calipers.

What I guess I was asking is did you actively seek this effect? Did you make any attempt at allowing the caliper hanger to pivot freely? Or is the caliper hanger under normal clamping load by the axle pinching the swingarm against the wheel spacer/bearings/captured sleeve/and brake hanger stack, and therefore immovable? And, if that IS the case, how has that been as far as conflict between your torque arm and the caliper hanger? Seeing that the master cylinder bolt you tied off to is NOT in line with, or concentric to the swingarm pivot, and the caliper bracket is kept 'x' distance from it...there is the potential to immobilize the rear suspension entirely whilst braking.

Or, were there maths involved to prevent this?

If so, they should be pointed out to Djimass before he goes forward with this kind of mod.

I'm closely following your discussion before deciding on whether i'll be doing this torque arm mod.

[yamaha_george]

Basically the rear m/c bolt is almost the same height as the axle to caliper mount bolt length above swing arm pivot point I made the tie bar to the same median length as the swing arm pivot bolt to axle length. There is enough adjustment in bar length thro the rose joints to compensate for most of the chain adjustment axle movement rearward.

I modded the caliper bracket to mount on a needle bearing & spacer and it can move even when the axle is torqued up.
I hope that clears that up as I am going off net for a while.

You guys have fun

[reelrazor]

I modded the caliper bracket to mount on a needle bearing & spacer and it can move even when the axle is torqued up.
I hope that clears that up as I am going off net for a while.

Cool, thanks for the clarification Geo. I knew you didn't go at it half-assed, but I didn't see any mention at saltmine about needing to allow rotation of the hanger, or how you accomplished that. I can't recall exactly but I think I used swingarm thrust bearings on each side of my RZ's caliper hanger.. which had the thickness of the thrust bearings taken off each face.

I just wanted to make sure that Djimass was made aware of this factoid/consideration

Oh, and we always miss you when you are away, Geo....I hope your absence is worthy of your time.

[Camala_Pillion]

ReelRazor,
one thing about my Old Man is he likes people to think NOT just copy as he says any fool can do that and the world could use a few less of them and more of the type that think it thro

As to his time, he is away getting professional help with his back problem so that we can enjoy our time away together before his Spinal Operation in September

[DonTZ125]

Tell Ye Olde Phartte - best wishes from the mob, and we'll be thinking of him and hoisting various BEvERages to his health.

[Camala_Pillion]

Tell Ye Olde Phartte - best wishes from the mob, and we'll be thinking of him and hoisting various BEvERages to his health.

I will pass on your sentiments but not the nick name he is easily to offend when he is in pain and he has a nasty temper " a bear with a sore head " springs to mind.

I know he has a lot of faith in you Don & you ReelRazor and a couple of you other artisans in metal & paint.

OH ModKing Y-G says send his overflow tank to arrive September 1st week if possible, he wants it on his hospital bed side to focus getting it all sorted to fix the bike ASAP. he says thank in advance and if you need any extra cash email / PM me not him as I have no access to his accounts