New member with a problem

[kudjan89]

Hello everyone ive been reading through this forum and it seems very informative

i purchased my frist bike this afternoon, its a 91 fzr 600 and i bought it not running. I figured out the first problem it had no power up to the guages, it was just the 20 amp fuse after the battery, but now that i have that figured out i tried to start it and i have nothing. The lights all come on and when i turn the key, everything works there, but when i push the start button, the oil light comes on and nothing happens not even the click of the starter, now if i jump the solenoid the engine will turn over but i cant get it to do it with the button

I know there is another topic on this but his was a little diffrent, any advise would be greatly appreciated this is the first time ive owned a bike but have been doing small engine stuff for a long time electrical stuff has always stumped me though

thanks you
matt

[sweekster]

Welcome aboard Matt. Post up some pics of the bike when you can. We actually like pic whores around here. As for your problem, that usually happens when you try starting the bike while it's in gear with the kick stand down. You wanna make sure it's in neutral. Is the battery new? If not give a 2 amp charge for a few hours and try again. Worst comes to worst all you need is a new battery-to at least get it to start up. Tuning it is a whole other issue.

Hope that helps

[kudjan89]

thanks for the advise ill check it out this morning, i put a trickle charger on the battery last night so that should be ok, its not a old battery but i know that you can junk a good battery quick if not maintained properly, and i was trying to start it with th kickstand down. Now im new to these bikes so i may sound kind of dumb or ask stupid questions but can you not start them with the kickstand down?

and here is a pic of the bike, taken from my phone so not the greatest, but thanks again

[ronny86]

yeh you can but just not in gear

[kudjan89]

well i tried a few things out this morning, i tried starting it with the kickstand up and down, and still nothing i think im leaning towards the starter solenoid being bad, if i jump the terminals on it it will turn over but it has no spark.

the other thing i was thinking is mabe the oil level sensor? but when i turn it on the guage cluster lights up everything works i here the fuel pump kick on and the ignition box click but nothing happens when i push the start button it just lights up the oil light and then it goes out when i let off, and the batt is good it has 12.6 volts

[yamaha_george]

Hi,
when you turn the key, turn off the lights, every thing should be off except the neutral light (green), with the rh switch in the run position the fuel pump should prime ( a series of clicks for a few seconds). When you hit the starter switch the oil light should come on and the engine tumble.

How ever the engine is NOT allowed to tumble IF the clutch lever is pulled ,the bike is not in neutral & the side stand is down. this is all part of Yamaha safety ideas.

Since you do not say in your profile where you are the bit about lights may not be true as some places in the world have always on head & tail lighting as part of the road laws.

12.6 volts standing is no measurement you need to know what the voltage does when you hit the start button. My best guess is it is down about 8 -10 volts.

[kudjan89]

well i am in michigan, when the key is on the lights all come on, the green light on the cluster is on and when i push the button the lights cut out

when i jump the solenoid it turns over just fine, and i am a mechanic, i know the battery is good, electronics are just not my strong point, and i just dont know what kind of saftey devices bikes have

[yamaha_george]

well i am in michigan,

Please put that in your profile a couple of days down the line no-one will remember to look in this thread to see what market your bike is from and as you already gather they are not all the same.

when the key is on the lights all come on, the green light on the cluster is on and when i push the button the lights cut out

One of our fellow Americans will have to jump in here, but to me the system should cut lights to get maximum cranking amps from the battery as common sense

when i jump the solenoid it turns over just fine,

In the wiki is a wiring diagram take a look at the wiring diagram and see if the bike and it match

and i am a mechanic,

Very useful to have on on the board to share the work load

i know the battery is good, electronics are just not my strong point, and i just dont know what kind of safety devices bikes have

On a new to you bike, no one expects to you which is why the simplistic run thro.
Did you check the battery voltage when you hit the start button yet? if so what was it?

[kudjan89]

well i replaced the starter solenoid, and that acomplished nothing........ im not good with electrical issues at all, i feel like im running in circles

[delvryboy]

Are you sure the battery is good? Did you monitor the voltage when you applied a load?

[reelrazor]

When you jump the solenoid, it cranks.

This tells me that you have inadequate voltage thru the system, even tho the battery may well be at good voltage.

This says, and is very common in older/stored bikes, that corrosion is a likely culprit. Start at the battery and trace the wires, cleaning as you go.

Especially check all junction blocks, and the main ground buss (either on the inside of the frame spar near the swingarm pivot-or on one of the rear engine case bolts).


These bikes also corrode inside the handlebar switchgear...check the actual start button contacts in the right hand switchgear.

[trump19]

i bet your start button is messed up myn gives me shit every now and again

[yamaha_george]

“it was just the 20 amp fuse after the battery”

the main fuse is or should be 30 Amp.

I would refer you to :- http://www.mawler.org/images/FZR600WiringDiagram.jpg which is an ex members simplified wiring showing for just the ignition set up

“but when i push the start button, the oil light comes on and nothing happens not even the click of the starter”

That tells me the Start Button is working fine.

Which leads me to believe the fault lies in the Safety Switch Circuit. When the bike is in Neutral, the Start Cut Out Relay grounds VIA the Neutral Switch, since your oil lamp illuminates Id say the connection to the Neutral Switch @ the Main Relay is both fine.

The Blue/Yellow wire from the TCI also grounds VIA the Neutral Switch. If the Blue/Yellow wire from the TCI is not grounded you won’t have a spark @ the plugs.

Here’s how the Safety Switches function.

1. The Start Cut Out Relay (housed within the Main Relay) grounds VIA the Neutral switch. VIA a diode in the Main Relay the Blue/Yellow wire from the TCI also grounds VIA the Neutral Switch (otherwise NO spark)

2. Bike in gear. With the sidestand/kickstand UP (kickstand switch closed) and Clutch lever pulled in (clutch switch closed) the Start Cut Out Relay grounds VIA the clutch switch then through the kickstand switch = the engine should crank. The Blue/Yellow wire from the TCI grounds VIA the kickstand switch = spark @ the plugs, the engine should start.

Basically if you have One or more corroded connections/open circuits on the main relay the engine WILL not crank, nor start.

Where is the Main Relay you may ask?

It’s behind the left rear side panel/fairing a Black box with 10 wires connected. Find it unplug the connector, inspect both the relay (11 prongs/pins) and the connection block 10 wires 2.8mm female spade connectors.

Clean as necessary. then get yourself some Dialectric grease and use liberally on the connection blocks terminals to prevent corrosion from doing you the same wickedness

[kudjan89]

after doing some more tinkering around, i found that main relay, and that was my thought that it has more then one relay inside of it and that it could be the culprit, i think i know where a bike is at a friends house and i might try to go and grab that one and try it and see if that is the issue

and i greatly appreciate all of your suggestions, this seems like and awesome site with a lot of helpful people

Thnak You
Matt

[kudjan89]

Well i am definetly getting a crash course on how these bikes work

Well after trying a new main relay, that still didn't do it, but it does do something diffrent now. when the key is on and the shutoff switch is in the run position the oil light stays on all the time now instead of coming on when i hit the start button.

Now i have the bike at work and a coworker and i are going through and tracing wires and checking sensors to see if we find anything out of wack........if you guys have any other suggestions please send them my way, and again all of your help so far has been greatly appreciated

Thanks
Matt