Fuel Injection kits for the FZR400, FZR600, YZF600

Freestyle72 · Post by **Freestyle72** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:13 pm

Ok so I am looking seriously at converting my FZR400 to fuel injection and have sent in some cad stuff to a machinist friend for quotation.

Now he mentioned it's really expensive for him to do 1 part, the more he does the cheaper it is for him to bother with programming his CNC.

Now it my question to you my FZR bretheren, how interested would you be in a kit that comes with all the machined/ difficult to make parts already done. For example I was thinking the kit would come with 4 throttlebody adapters, 1 respaced throttlebody.

Now I am wondering this... Would you want the standalone ecu included? That would be another $400 (microsquirt). And a high pressure fuel pump and the extra sensors like MAP sensor etc, O2 sensor, etc etc would add more to the cost.

So give me your thoughts what would you want a complete plug and go kit which would probably end up being around $1400-$1500 if it includes all sensors, standalone ecu, adapters, modified R6 throttlebody, maybe some mapping pre-loaded, and some margin for my time.

Give me your thoughts. What do you guys want? Or is there no interest for that kind of an offering? I know it's steep for these old bikes which is I want to offer just the adapters and modified throttlebodies.

blensen · Post by **blensen** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:21 pm

At that kind of price I would probably just sell the fzr and buy a second-gen r6 or f4i. Now if you were talking adapters and tb's modified to use with the stock ecu, then I think you'd have some more takers.

yamaha_george · Post by **yamaha_george** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:06 am

F,
nice of you to offer this to all of us BUT I think that at the moment a lot of us are feeling the financial hits of just living reasonably.
Perhaps it might be an idea to think of a way to do the whole thing but in steps so that each hit can be done separately, used some, whilst saving some more, do the next step etc
Just my 1.5 cents(the govt took the other 0.5 in taxes)

yamaha_george · Post by **yamaha_george** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:49 am

Freestyle72 wrote:It's already has a 660 in it bored +1mm to 683. .

Mawler wrote:The cost of converting to FI is well.... Who in their right mind would pay that kind of money.

I know guys who buy old bikes and RESTORE them and the original bike new in its day was 20 Pounds to restore it probably 5K pounds if they get lucky.

My bike cost me what 650 and I just spent 150 on new stainless steel pipes.So that is what nearly 25% of the original cost in just a set of pipes I really must take my medication..............................

Which ever way you look at it the old bikes are money pits. so you just might want one that goes faster, what ever floats yer boat really.

fzrbrandon · Post by **fzrbrandon** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:26 pm

yamaha_george wrote: I know guys who buy old bikes and RESTORE them and the original bike new in its day was 20 Pounds to restore it probably 5K pounds if they get lucky.

My bike cost me what 650 and I just spent 150 on new stainless steel pipes.So that is what nearly 25% of the original cost in just a set of pipes I really must take my medication..............................

Which ever way you look at it the old bikes are money pits. so you just might want one that goes faster, what ever floats yer boat really.

Yep. I know I've got more money into my 600 than what it cost brand new (and I still have a couple things I need to do). My 400 isn't too far behind (pre-crash, that is).

Freestyle72 · Post by **Freestyle72** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:15 pm

mawler wrote:I thought you had a 660 in your 400,

Freestyle72 wrote:It's already has a 660 in it bored +1mm to 683. .
The cost of converting to FI is well.... Who in their right mind would pay that kind of money.

I do have a 683,
Let me break it down the costs for you:-
.

- Microsquirt ECU $400+ shipping
- Wideband O2 sensor $150 shipped
- Coolant temp sensor $20
- IAT $20
- MAP $20
- Adapter plates ( haven't gotten my quote yet but will be around $400 hopefully lower)
- R6 Throttlebodies $50-150 used then pay a welder $30 to weld in a section and probably another $15 in all thread rod and nuts to respace the throttle bodies
- Boots for adapter plates $20 used or $20 a piece from a dealer
- high pressure fuel pump $100
- and doesn't include my time to test and develop some maps.
$1200+ without my time yet and possibly other stuff like a custom trigger wheel if we were to do fuel And spark.

Who in their right mind would pay that? I don't know, I threw out a high number to be conservative but you can see from the cost break down how much things cost. I put this idea out there to promote discussion on the topic. I am personally intending on holding onto my 400 indefinitely and I HATE tuning carbs. Not to mention if you buy throttlebodies new from Yamaha they are like $1500.

racerd14666 · Post by **racerd14666** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:27 pm

Freestyle72 wrote: and I HATE tuning carbs.

Hey guess What?......

you still have to tune a DIY fi kit with lets face it is more complex than a carb cus you need a computer and programming skills to adjust the maps let alone spend the time to sit down do the math to get a base map that will even let the bike start up, cus mega squirt isnt self correcting it works off of the maps u program thats not even accounting for the time on the dyno with a EGA to get the thing dialed in correctly. lets not even factor in the cost of fabrication and equipment to retrofit the fzr with efi.

lets face it your still tuning either way efi is alot harder cus there is no reference point, and with mega squirt its a single point of failure if one sensor isn't working the bike wont run hardly or at all as per my experiences, were as with the carbs the service manual takes all the guess work outta figuring things out and has a trouble shooting/tuning guide and you can get a jet kit for around 100 bux and call tech support and have them help you tune your bike\

not even to mention you will never have that uber crisp throttle response with a diy kit cus they dont use alot of sensors like the oem efi bikes do and mega squirt fires all the injectors at once not batch firing them and no cam sensor like the super crips oem bikes do, so even if you spend a ass load of time setting the thing up your still gonna run like a well tuned carb

yamaha_george · Post by **yamaha_george** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:51 pm

RaceRD,
I tend to agree with what you said BUT there are those in the brethren that are just curious for curious sake and will happily do all the DIY and learn mapping with a computer etc.

How do i know this? well back when dino's roamed the earth i found a like minded soul had used a scientific calculator (as opposed to a log table book) to calculate 2 stroke expansion chamber designs. then he and I found that John Robinson (Performance bike mag) had re-written it for the BBC B computer. It turned out Johns math for the computer was flawed. I bought a BBC B learned to use it & write software for it. I corrected John's program, then I learned how to use the Pascal Prog Lang, C & C++ and ported the program over to the IBM PC & it's clones.
Why ? because I could.

what did I achieve to save 6 hours of calculation time & the ability to do what if type calculations. took me two years of my life to do it but hey who is counting LoL

racerd14666 · Post by **racerd14666** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:52 pm

im all for doing things just for the hell of it cus im guilty of it all the time, but what i got outta what he was saying was he was swapping over to efi cus he didnt wanna tune a carb, so id point out some things ppl forget about efi. cus if hes only swapping over to efi cus he dosent wanna tune his carbs is like stepping over $100 bills to pick up pennys cus you could pay a dealership and have some one like me to clean and fiddle around with it for a few hours and having it run amazingly for for like $200-$300 vs almost $2k and weeks or months of down time

Post by **DonTZ125** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:34 pm

Racerd - your MS info is at least 2 years out of date. Current MS2/Extra code (can also be used on the MicroSquirt) does full sequential injection and ignition, and the TunerStudio tuning software does live while-you-ride tuning correction. You no longer need programming skills, everything is Windows point-and-click. 36-1 trigger wheels have not and never have been required, in fact there is currently support in alpha-form for the native 1-long 3-short teeth trigger wheel used on the FZRs. Add an R6 cam sensor ($40 on EvilBay) and you're off to the races. I'm trying to get myself organised to develop a crank-phase identification rig that does not involve boring holes in metal.

Mawler, Racerd - you guys are both very knowledgeable, and your comments are generally very straightforward and to the point, but there are many days when you both post like you have raging hangovers, bitter and angry. If someone (like me, BTW) wants to spend the $$ to do an EFI conversion (like various others on the MS sites already have), why does that make you so upset?

fzrbrandon · Post by **fzrbrandon** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:41 pm

DonTZ125 wrote: Mawler, Racerd - you guys are both very knowledgeable, and your comments are generally very straightforward and to the point, but there are many days when you both post like you have raging hangovers, bitter and angry.

I agree on both counts. That said, let's try to keep this - :drink:

- and this -

- to a minimum. lol

Post by **DonTZ125** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:34 pm

The per-item component prices he listed are realistic, and reflect what I've seen and spent in my own EFI scavenger hunt. $1200 is CHEAP to EFI a carb'd vehicle.

yamaha_george · Post by **yamaha_george** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:22 am

Guys,
Whether some one would spend "X" amount of dollars on dragging an old bike into 21st century technology is a personal choice. If you think it is a waste that is your personal opinion.

FS decided to see if the readership was interested in
A) the project of FI'ing an FZR
&
B) If some one was willing to help lower the costs slightly by joining him in doing theirs
C) have some one to chat to if he got stuck at some point.

RacerRD as far as i read made valid points that FI is not quite a simple mod compared to just tuning carbs.
Don pointed out some new advances in the MegaSquirt field (which since the last time any one brought up the subject seems to have come on in leaps and bounds)
Mal seems to think that the whole idea is totally ludicrous, but I really think that the way it was expressed was some what off key and may be playing to Don's idea of being " grumpy & hung over ".

As site director I do not like the way this has gone and I suggest that this be the LAST message in the thread UNLESS some one can add any TECHNICAL INPUT if NOT I will delete the thread in the name of Good Conduct !!

Freestyle72 · Post by **Freestyle72** » Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:55 am

My first quote back on those intake adapters is $330 so far. Still waiting to hear from a few more machine shops.

yamaha_george · Post by **yamaha_george** » Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:07 pm

Freestyle72 wrote:My first quote back on those intake adapters is $330 so far. Still waiting to hear from a few more machine shops.

FS,
some where (could have been on this board,may be under gear head section???) I read that some one was doing swap outs i.e. you send a set of bodies and he sends you another set but complete with all the adaptions done.

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