Starting up after 2 years !!!!!!! HELP !!!!!!!!!

[fizzer6hundred]

Hi All,

Hoping some one could answer a few questions.

Initial problem bad idle. Would not stay running and would barley keep running even while feathering the throttle. High end "seemed" fine.

Starting up after a few years (in Az no hard freezes). I had idle issues that led me to break down the carbs from scratch back then (2 years ago). Back then I cleaned all the jets including the pilot jets and low end air screws all with carb cleaner and chased out with small music wire for good measure.

After assembly I had the same problem.

1. Are there any vacuum lines I need to check?
2. Can I run the bike with the air box off and all the hoses disconnected? Meaning do I need to clamp any of these for proper idle like on my V8?
3. Any general info on this problem to help me solve would be greatly appreciated!

Bike has only 12,500 miles on it.

Thanks,
Fizzer6hundred

[yamaha_george]

Hi All,

Hoping some one could answer a few questions.

Initial problem bad idle. Would not stay running and would barley keep running even while feathering the throttle. High end "seemed" fine.

Starting up after a few years (in Az no hard freezes). I had idle issues that led me to break down the carbs from scratch back then (2 years ago). Back then I cleaned all the jets including the pilot jets and low end air screws all with carb cleaner and chased out with small music wire for good measure.

After assembly I had the same problem.

1. Are there any vacuum lines I need to check?
2. Can I run the bike with the air box off and all the hoses disconnected? Meaning do I need to clamp any of these for proper idle like on my V8?
3. Any general info on this problem to help me solve would be greatly appreciated!

Bike has only 3600 miles on it.

Thanks,
Fizzer6hundred

Hi,
what you do not say is during its "mothballed" stage did you leave liquids in it?

If yes then you need to clean the tank/filter/pump/carbs .
Fresh gas and start then synch the carbs (we have a DIY tool for doing this on the Forum/WIKI )

If no you still need to check for corrosion in those pieces

Have you tried SeaFoam with your gas ?

[fizzer6hundred]

It was late and I was not expressing myself well. I am on the third go around. The second try gave me the same results after tear down two years ago. Now I am trying to start the engine (with fresh gas) and it does not fire up. I drained the fresh battery (also has fresh plugs) and if fired for 2 seconds and is now on a charger ready for me to try the next thing.

I still need to know if I need to have any of the numerous rubber lines pluged in order to have a good idle (are any of these lines vacuum lines?) as I have taken off the airbox off. This is basically what I am now asking............


Thanks!

[yamaha_george]

It was late and I was not expressing myself well. I am on the third go around. The second try gave me the same results after tear down two years ago. Now I am trying to start the engine (with fresh gas) and it does not fire up. I drained the fresh battery (also has fresh plugs) and if fired for 2 seconds and is now on a charger ready for me to try the next thing.

I still need to know if I need to have any of the numerous rubber lines pluged in order to have a good idle (are any of these lines vacuum lines?) as I have taken off the airbox off. This is basically what I am now asking............


Thanks!

Hi,
been a while since I synched my carbs at the beginning of the riding season, but I do not recall having to clamp off any hoses whilst the air box was off.

[kilika2]

The only thing that absolutly has to be on when syncing, or with or with out the airbox on, is the screws where you hook up the carb sync tools. The bike will probably not run very well. In fact last time I sync'd my carbs I forgot to put number 1 back on when I switched to 3 & 4 and I couldn't figure out why the bike wouldn't idle at all. Took me 2 mins to realize that I had 3 screws on the counter when I should only have 2.

Also I ran my bike with out a filter in my airbox for about 3 months. But think about all the crap that you could get into the carbs and have to clean little bugs out of the pilot screws. But you can sync with the a.b. on or off.

Chris.

[fizzer6hundred]

Hi Chris and George thanks for the help. I will give it another go tonight after work. Man I really miss riding her.

[kilika2]

Also, just thought I know you said new plugs. Did you have VR problems since then? I put new plugs in (250 Miles) and then the bike sat during the winter. When I tore it down and put it back together when it came spring time I couldn't get the bike to fire. Went through everything again even the carbs. Nothing. I didn't have VR problems to speak of but I check the gap on the plugs and they were still .28. Long story short is after a week I went and bought new plugs and put them in viola.

Chris.

here is the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P8zFYNRZDM
also click on the other videos by me and see if running poorly sounds familiar.

[fizzer6hundred]

I was able to start the engine tonight after work ... coaxing it with some carb cleaner. She fired right up and went to 3500 RPM.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I had the Air Box OFF and CHOKE ON.

High idle 3500 - 3000 RPM (Still full choke)

Tried some throttle and she dies......does not like any throttle.

She stayed at 3000 RPM for a few minutes and I decided to get some SeaFoam in her and poured a little into each carb at a time and she smoked real good.

Smoked for 4 minutes or so....

RPM did not come down much so I decided to back off (after 3 minutes) the choke from 100% full choke to 75% from full choke and she just wants to die.


Started her up on choke (only way she would run) and decided to put her back in the garage and with the clutch in as soon as I put her in gear she died instantly.


Plugs are new but I need to pull them and try and read them.
Gas is fresh 91 Otc
Carbs torn down by myself and cleaned 2 years ago and not run since (Questionable condition now)

This is exactly where I left the machine two years ago when I tried to fix this same problem before and after the carb cleaning (never tried to sync them though).

It has sat for a long time and I am wondering what sitting does to the set up......


Too rich???? Too Lean???? Need Syncing? Need to pull the carbs and clean/sync?

If I pull the carbs to have them cleaned and synced by a shop any idea of what I should pay? I live in Phoenix AZ.

Any thoughts?

[thatkid]

Sitting for 2 years = you will have atleast 2 sets of valves that are rusty/corroded, inlet on 1 cylinder exhaust on another until those valves bed in (reseal) synchronising the carbs is futile, the engines breathing will change (vacuum levels) There's a guide here somewhere you can follow, so there's no need to pay anyone.

Since this is an on going problem, I suspect the ignition system could also be @ fault. Have you eliminated any ignition problems? and checked for corroded connections I.E. all 4 cylinders have a good quality spark?

Also these are old bikes, the inlet manifolds (rubbers are prone to crack with age) causing vacuum leaks. You also mentioned

I still need to know if I need to have any of the numerous rubber lines pluged in order to have a good idle (are any of these lines vacuum lines?) as I have taken off the airbox off.

Could you have a California model? which do have emission controls, vacuum pipes e.t.c.

Just throwing some suggestions @ You.

Good Luck
Mal.

[fizzer6hundred]

I have not checked spark. How do I determine spark quality? Inlet seals look ok.

If valves are not seated due to corrosion does than mean a vlave job?

I just seem to have more questions than answers I now wonder if there is a step by step process to dig at this like
1. Check spark/ignition (step by step)
2. Check fuel delivery (step by step)
3. Assume carbs need cleaning and syncing (step by step)
4. Check valve clearances (step by step)
5. Check wallet for funds to pay some one to figure this out

[thatkid]

http://commline.com/FZR/600/MANUAL/

that's your best bet, take a look @ those PDF files.

Mal.

[apsolus]

someone on this forum is selling some 600 carbs, if yu need to go down that route. man this prob really sound carb related dude. ive heard of carburators cracking or vacuum diaphrams tearing, did you spray throu the passeges in the carburators? might be gummed up. sounds like your bik isnt geting fuel to me because it only runs on choke.once you lower choke or open throttle yur adding air leaning the mixture more. did you spray around yur intake boots, manifolds, airbox boots? after you do the ignition stuff go looking at the carbs, AGAIN! sorry dude i bet your tired of that bike! i think in my opinion if you had weak spark it would still run it would just spit and sputter alot.

[yamaha_george]

I have not checked spark. How do I determine spark quality? Inlet seals look ok.

If valves are not seated due to corrosion does than mean a vlave job?

I just seem to have more questions than answers I now wonder if there is a step by step process to dig at this like
1. Check spark/ignition (step by step)
2. Check fuel delivery (step by step)
3. Assume carbs need cleaning and syncing (step by step)
4. Check valve clearances (step by step)
5. Check wallet for funds to pay some one to figure this out

Do 3 first and check for air leaks round boots with either soapy water or Easy start spray which will make the bike revs change.

[fizzer6hundred]

Thanks for all the inputs!

Funny I never would have thought throttling up would cause a lean condition but wanting to idle (3000 RPM) with full choke only does seem to indicate wanting more fuel.

Going to try #3 Just pulled the carbs out and will break them down completely and will clean (again) all the jets and orifices with Yamaha carb cleaner I can find. Will chase out with music wire and air blast when done.

I also have a set of used untested or rebuilt back up carbs (I bought just for this problem) I might try putting on just to see if they work. This would potentially rule out anything else. Mine are jetted and would rather run with those longer term but hey if the other set works I at least know what the problem area is (the original carb set) and have something to use until I shake out the original set.

I pulled all the plugs (NGK CR9E) they were black but I was able to clean them VERY easily with carb cleaner they only had about 20 minutes on them total.

Never Synchronized carbs before so I will have to read the manual and posts.

Anything else I should do while I am at it?

[thatkid]

OK here's a little story,

In my apprenticeship, I was working on a Hillman Avenger that would not idle, it ran rough and often cut out. Judging by the owner (an old lady) and the mileage (can't remember but it was something like 2000 miles on a 5 year old car) the car hardly ever got used. After thoroughly testing the ignition system with a Crypton Tuner (oscilloscopes and the lot) replacing the plugs, adjusting the valve clearances, checking compressions (which were slightly low) no joy. Then i fiddled with the carb (only one carb fitted) still nothing. Solution, I took that car on the ride of it's life, 30 miles on a duel carriage way, probably the fastest that car had ever been (I had my foot to the floor the whole time). Then I readjusted the carb Viola.

Rule of thumb the last thing you ever do on an engine is adjust the carbs. IF the compressions are low, or the ignition system ain't up to scratch, will any amount of fiddling with the carbs rectify those problems? I think not (well really I know it won't)

In your case I would check the ignition system, corroded connections WILL reduce the voltage to the coils = a weak spark. Say you have (due to corroded connections) only 10 Volts to the coils, when you hit the start button that voltage WILL drop to around 8 Volts = a very weak spark. Then I would run the engine, so the rusty valve's could reseal, you could also have gummed up piston rings, try some seafoam in the fuel & the oil which could help free the rings. Also a squirt of oil down the plug holes will help the rings seal.

Assuming there are no vacuum leaks, then and only then would I adjust/synch the carbs.