Clutch presser plate push rod welded to ball bearing

[iceman_ch]

Ok I'm stuck and really use some help. My bike is a 92 fzr600. I replaced the clutches everything seemed fine. I started the bike up and took it for a spin. It ran great. It might still be sliping but I'm not sure. Whenever I'm crusing and I grap a handful of throttle the rpms go up but the bike dosn't seem to pick up a ton of acceleration till I let off a little bit. Thats not the real problem right now though. After replacing the clutches I went for about a 20 mile ride. I got to a stop sign (not the first one) and pulled the clutch in. I let the clutch out and took off. When I pulled it back in to shift to second there was no clutch. I limped it up the road to a freinds house and took the cover off thinking that maybe a spring came loose or broke. Everything seemed fine so on a whim I readjusted the clutch on the handle. Before it broke it was halfway out. I adjusted it so it was all the way out. It worked so I went riding again. I got a mile up the road and stopped again and the same problem happend. Clutch was completly gone. I had a trailor pick it up and take it to a freinds house. When I got there I pulled the clutch cover off and the front chain cover off. The clutch look fine they don't smell burnt or anything. On the otherside is wher the problem is. Apperntly the little screw that twists and push into the pushrod that runs through the transmision broke. Thats why the clutch was gone all of a sudden. Altough if that snapped while I was holding the clutch you would think the bike would cut off. Anyways back to the damage. I pulled the pressure plate off and pulled that plunger out. It was welded to the ball bearing wich in turn was welded to the push rod. It was very difficult to pull the push rod out. I had to pull pretty hard to get it. So I know all of these componets need to be replaced. My question is what could have caused it. I need opinions. My hope is that the new springs are alot stiffer and because these compents are old the broke. However I was wondering what everyone though and what the worst case scenario is. Is there something I could have done wrong that would have caused thouse componets to break?

[surgscrubfzr]

im curious about this also. the exact same thing happened to me too. first my clutch went out on me right before i got home (luckly). i replaced the cable, sprocket cover and actuater thingy with the screw, clutch plates, complete clutch bascket, pushrod, plunger and ball bearing(these last three were also welded togather.) i used the sock springs thou. after getting it all back ogather and running i took it running and it went out on me after half a mile. mine is also a 92 fzr 600 but is has a 94 engine in it now. i have no idea why it went out either. i dont stunt, race, or abuse the bike. just normal riding. i have yet to open it back up and see whats wrong. i will update as i go. any ideas guys?

[iceman_ch]

Just curious because I need to order parts today but where did you get the actuator, pushrod, ball bearing and the little plunger dohicky?

[yamaha_george]

Guys,
when you did the clutch work you forgot to oil the rods when you re-assembled them and your oil level seems to have been low. Only friction heat can weld the set up together and the oil is supposed to stop that.

[iceman_ch]

Your right I didn't oil them put I also didn't remove them. My oil level was fine I even added more oil right after doing the work. Would they need to be oiled even though I didn't remove them. Also I didn't do any adjustments on the actuator could that be part of it maybe? It would keep extra pressure on the rods creating unnecessary movment.

[iceman_ch]

I just ordered all of the parts I need. I got push rod 1, push rod 2, o-ring, ball bearing, pressure plate, and the setbolt. I'm going to oil everything really good and install and hopefully that will fix the problem. I looked at the haynes manual and it says to install the clutch steels in specific spots. It said there was marks on the basket and the steels have to alternate. On my bike there isn't any of these marks. It also said the pressure plate has a mark that has to line up to. I didn't see this either. When I look at the factory service manual it dosn't have any of these directions. Can anyone help clear this up. My suspicioin is that the bike in the haynes manual is newer then mine and has these parts. The haynes also showed the short pushrod having a knob that sticks through the pressure plate and rests on a bearing. My bike definetly dosn't have this.

[yamaha_george]

I just ordered all of the parts I need. I got push rod 1, push rod 2, o-ring, ball bearing, pressure plate, and the setbolt. I'm going to oil everything really good and install and hopefully that will fix the problem. I looked at the haynes manual and it says to install the clutch steels in specific spots. It said there was marks on the basket and the steels have to alternate. On my bike there isn't any of these marks. It also said the pressure plate has a mark that has to line up to. I didn't see this either. When I look at the factory service manual it dosn't have any of these directions. Can anyone help clear this up. My suspicioin is that the bike in the haynes manual is newer then mine and has these parts. The haynes also showed the short pushrod having a knob that sticks through the pressure plate and rests on a bearing. My bike definetly dosn't have this.

Ice,
some Yamaha's are "balanced" clutches using this method of the steels having weighting tabs and the basket having circles as to where to put the tabs. I always soaked the corks in fresh oil befor e assembly for 24 Hours (way I was taught ). I also clean and inspect steels for flatness and sharp punched edges so as to be all one way .
Rods i inspect for straightness & wear ridges and blueing (signs of heat) and always oil the rod , bakk etc before assembly as it take as while for the splash delivery to get oil down the tube with the rod in place.

FZR 's are VERy criticall on oil volume and the way to check it is ok !!

[iceman_ch]

So I've been readin and it sounds like this can be a semi common problem. It sounds like the rod dosen't get suffecient oil and welds itself toghether. Is there a way that I can increase the oil flow or help prevent this from happening again. Also how do I clean the tube out so that there isn't any dirt in there.

[reelrazor]

The way to prevent this is to MAKE SURE you have the correct free play at the ACTUATOR. This is why/where the manual says...."..turn screw in until it makes contact, then back it out a 1/4 turn..."

If there is NO FREE PLAY...the rod spins continuously. It is ONLY designed to spin momentarily at each clutch actuation. The rod/ball/rod setup is the motorcycle equivalent of a throwout bearing in a car. Shift into neutral rather than staying in gear for long periods without moving.

Rest your foot on the clutch pedal of a stick shift car when you drive and you will soon hear a classic squeal of the overheated throwout bearing-same dealio

[surgscrubfzr]

i had a spare parts engine.

[M in KC]

George and Razor are correct. Oil and clutch adjustment. Friction welding the ball bearing is not just relegated to the FZR. If you preload to much tension on the pusher via the push rod(s) and the ball bearing you will get exactly these conditions. Nice explanation Razor. George glad you made it back sooner than you made it sound previously.

[yamaha_george]

George and Razor are correct. Oil and clutch adjustment. Friction welding the ball bearing is not just relegated to the FZR. If you preload to much tension on the pusher via the push rod(s) and the ball bearing you will get exactly these conditions. Nice explanation Razor. George glad you made it back sooner than you made it sound previously.

M,
not back in the UK yet, have to cyber link to get here and that is a hassle with crap comm lines

[surgscrubfzr]

thanks for the explanation.

[fzraudun]

Check if the spring which retracts the clutch actuator is present (inside the sprocket cover)! They can fall off and then.... well all hell is loose
Also check that the clutch cable itself runs freely, if not oil\replace it.

[iceman_ch]

Well I have all of the new parts installed other then the adjustment bolt in the actuator. I couldn't get the old one out and I'll have to buy a new actuator to replace that bolt. The only reason I was replacing it was becasue it was cheap. I don't think it's neccessary to replace. It's chewed up so it won't give all of the adjustment it used to but it still gives enough. I realized when reassembling everything what thre problem was the first time. I was working on the clutch side with the chain cover off. When I installed the pressure plate and the springs I relized that I didn't have to push on the springs at all to get the bolts started. The first time I did it I rember having to push on them a little to get the bolt started. At the time I assumed this was becaseu the springs were just a little longer because they were new. In hindsight I now know that everything failed because the actuator was asjusted out to far and after installing the clutches I didn't readjust it. I just adjusted the lever. OH well it's all fixed now and hopefully that was it. I've ridden it around the block a couple of time and thats it so far so good. No more slipping at high RPM wich also tells me it was adjusted incorrectly. After I installed the clutches the first time they would still slip at high rpms.