bike still not starting :(

[match417]

hopefully someone will chime in that has done the ford escort coil pack mod...

Just to make sure my wiring diagram is right, when you guys wired in the coil pack did you make the orange control wire the wire on the left pin of the plug for cylinders 1/4, the red/white wire the main voltage wire on the middle pin on the coil pack, and the gray wire the right pin on the plug for cylinders 2/3? I'm about to go outside and look over everything.

[match417]

crap...

tested both the pickup on my bike and the pickup off of the parts bike

my bike: pickup coil resistance is 100.5 ohms
parts bike: pickup coil resistance is 103.5 ohms
working range is 135 to 165 ohms

but this is the same VOM that I tested both of my coilpacks with (from the two bikes) and it said they were just a hair above working range. I'm going to borrow my friends VOM because I don't trust mine anymore. This is my second cheap radioshack brand VOM that I've had crap out on me if this one actually is a bad one.

Can someone please give me an in-depth explanation of the TCI coils system BEFORE the signal hits the coil? From what I learned in tuning school about how pickups work is they generate a voltage signal and the voltage increases the faster the rotor spins beneath the pickup. And my guess is that the TCI receives this low voltage signal from the pickup at cranking rpms (300 - 400 rpms), and redirects it toward the coilpack via either the gray or orange wire, whichever it determines based on the timing bumps on the rotor. So if the pickup is going bad, the signal at cranking rpms to the TCI would be lower than normal, thus creating a spark not strong enough to ignite the gasoline in the combustion chamber. This would explain why I still have a spark even though my pickup coil tests bad. Most of this is a guess, hopefully someone will correct me if I figured this out wrong. Thanks guys! I'm going to get my friends VOM now.

[reelrazor]

My manual says 80-120 ohms is the range for pickup coil.

You 'zero' your meter before using?

Can someone please give me an in-depth explanation of the TCI coils system BEFORE the signal hits the coil? From what I learned in tuning school about how pickups work is they generate a voltage signal and the voltage increases the faster the rotor spins beneath the pickup. And my guess is that the TCI receives this low voltage signal from the pickup at cranking rpms (300 - 400 rpms), and redirects it toward the coilpack via either the gray or orange wire, whichever it determines based on the timing bumps on the rotor. So if the pickup is going bad, the signal at cranking rpms to the TCI would be lower than normal, thus creating a spark not strong enough to ignite the gasoline in the combustion chamber. This would explain why I still have a spark even though my pickup coil tests bad. Most of this is a guess, hopefully someone will correct me if I figured this out wrong. Thanks guys! I'm going to get my friends VOM now.

Our pickups are unpowered (two wire) magnetic pickups...they are NOT Hall effect sensors like most cars use. They only show a flux change....which amounts to minimal voltage. that is what the TCI uses to determine crank position.

The coil pack should be powered (battery voltage) FULL TIME. When the ignition event is needed, the TCI INTERUPPTS the power(voltage goes to ZERO). -the TCI SHUTS THE ORANGE AND GREY WIRES OFF to make spark (interrupts the ground/circuit)

Our ignitions operate EXACTLY like an old school auto point and condenser setup. The pickup is just a substitute for the points and the TCi is a combo timing advance/switching device.


the red/white from each of the FZR primary leads get spliced together and go to the red/green on the escort coil pack.The blue/green lead on the escort powerpack runs the #1 and #4 side of the escort coil, the red/light green goes to #2 and #3.

I forget whether the grey , or orange wire on the FZR runs #1 and #4, and vice-versa-butthere's two choices...one is right.

[match417]

I have the Haynes repair manual, I'm sure there are differences from the factory manual if that's what you're going by, but from me going by my manual the pickup coil resistance should be 135 - 165 ohms. What manual are you going by that says 80 - 120 ohms? If it's the factory manual I'll believe you and disregard mine. And I don't have the ford stock plug off of the harness that plugs into the coil pack, so I don't know the wire colors, only the pins from left to right. And I remember troubleshooting these coil packs, all I know for sure is the outside two pins are the signal/control pins, and the middle pin is the hot from battery, and logically by looking at the pack I assume that the left pin on the plug is for the left side of the coil pack, which controls cyls 1/4. That's how I have it hooked up right now, the left pin is the control wire for cyls 1/4, and the right pin is for cyls 2/3.

**edit: my meter zeroes itself when I take the leads off of whatever I'm testing.

[reelrazor]

**edit: my meter zeroes itself when I take the leads off of whatever I'm testing.

Doesn't matter. Good practice/habit to touch both leads together each time you switch to 'Ohms' scale and force it to zero. My Fluke and my Mac meters both will zero and store when you push straight down on the rotary knob.

Both Clymer and OEM manual say 80-120 ohms

[yamaha_george]

**edit: my meter zeroes itself when I take the leads off of whatever I'm testing.

Doesn't matter. Good practice/habit to touch both leads together each time you switch to 'Ohms' scale and force it to zero. My Fluke and my Mac meters both will zero and store when you push straight down on the rotary knob.

Both Clymer and OEM manual say 80-120 ohms

RR,
At that rate Haynes is a TYPO @ 135-165 @20degrees Centigrade, I will post it as awarning.

After all I have read on this thread I have a gut feeling the wrong pair is being fired.

[match417]

stupid haynes manual..I found the stock one online last night after I made my last post.

Today I'll just switch the wires around and see if it fires.

[haro504]

the coil swap diagram i have says with the coil plug facing you the left is orange and the right is grey and the middle is the striped one with the upper left socket being cylinder 1 and 4 below it and the upper right being 2 and 3 below that. the orange is cylinder 1 iv been told

[match417]

the coil swap diagram i have says with the coil plug facing you the left is orange and the right is grey and the middle is the striped one with the upper left socket being cylinder 1 and 4 below it and the upper right being 2 and 3 below that. the orange is cylinder 1 iv been told

yeah, orange is for the coil pack for cyls 1/4 according to my book, and gray is for cyls 2/3, the red/white wire is a constant hot wire straight from the ignition fuse. The left and right I was referring to is on the ford coil pack.

[match417]

I just checked the coil pack again, it's definitely not the ignition system, my minimum arc distance is 1/2 inch (13mm for everyone outside of the US) and the stock coil pack minimum arc distance is 1/4 inch or 6mm, and I gave myself a nice little jolt checking cylinder 3, my thumb is still tingling a little.., I've gotten worse though. I also unplugged the orange wire and tested the spark on cyl 1, nothing, so I can safely assume that it's wired correctly. I checked the arc distance on all cylinders, it's close to the same. So this rules out the entire ignition system except for the plugs that are still in the engine. They are new, but have seen a lot of unburnt gas since I put them in a week ago. I should pull them out I guess. Side note: another good thing about putting on a YZF600 radiator is you don't have to loosen and shift the radiator every time you wanna change your plugs!

[haro504]

where did the stuff that fell on it land maybe it damaged something you dident know of id check the plugs in the cylinder just to rule it out if there ok maybe use your hand and check for vacume threw the carbs

[match417]

where did the stuff that fell on it land maybe it damaged something you dident know of id check the plugs in the cylinder just to rule it out if there ok maybe use your hand and check for vacume threw the carbs

the stuff that landed on it fell everywhere, when I got back to my house there was over a foot pile of shingles all around it. I had to dig around the kickstand so I could get it up to try and start it. The rear tire was almost buried, and I think the front tire was over halfway buried. The pile hit everything I'm told it was a big pile of a lot of layers of shingles that was on our roof, it got too heavy and slid off, so they say. And yeah I've already checked the vacuum on the carbs, you can feel the air being sucked in.

The things that didn't work after the impact were the headlight (fixed) turnsignals (kindof fixed), and ignition(still working on)..but I'm not quite sure the ignition problem was due to the impact, maybe at first it was, but it's been sitting for 6 months, and now I've ruled everything out in the ignition system except for the spark plugs. I really don't want to pull those out again.

[haro504]

if you have a spark at the plug caps then id assume the ignition is working fine, i think all the saftys and problems would cut out the spark. if your smelling fuel then it would lead me to belive that either its the plugs not sparking or a timing/compression issue. or maybe air fuel mixture is the air filter clean could the airbox or carb boots been damaged when the stuff fell

[yamaha_george]

if you have a spark at the plug caps then id assume the ignition is working fine, i think all the saftys and problems would cut out the spark. if your smelling fuel then it would lead me to belive that either its the plugs not sparking or a timing/compression issue. or maybe air fuel mixture is the air filter clean could the airbox or carb boots been damaged when the stuff fell

Pull the plugs put them in the kitchen oven & dry them out. When still warm put em back in the bike (old BSA trick in winter if you flooded the bike trying to start it )

[match417]

Something hit me yesterday, by the way I haven't had time to do anything to the bike since my last post. I changed my spark plugs out a couple weeks ago, and there was so much crap around them, like little shingle pieces as small as dirt, I tried to clean around the spark plug holes in the head before I pulled out the plugs, but they are recessed in the head a little. So I just tried to be careful. After thinking about that, I'm pretty sure my spark plugs aren't seating the way they should be to allow the compression ring to fully collapse because there is crap preventing the spark plugs from seating all the way (possibly), this would give me a small compression leak, but I'm wondering how much of a difference it would make(if any). I've done compression tests on engines before without screwing the gauge in all the way so that it seats, and compression doesn't have time to drop fast in the engine, like it would drop 10lbs in a couple seconds, and a compression leak that small isn't fast enough to keep the engine from running normal. So I just disproved my possibility....erg. I'm half-tempted to just pull out my engine and clean everything or maybe even swap it with the 96 FZR. I'm still thinking about adjusting the valve lash, I don't want to start adjusting things that I didn't adjust in the first place for it to stop running. And dropping a pile of shingles on a bike isn't going to make the timing chain jump, or change the valve lash.