Carbs rebuilding kits

[China_Racer_1]

Can someone please confirm that the 3EN model carbs are also the exact same carbs as the FZR 600 carbs
If so I can order a rebuild kit and some jets and get these things dialed in.

And if anyone has a lead n where to get a rebuild kit as well as a dynot jet kit or soemthing simular let me know.

While I am at it Pro Series offers a new emulsion tube per carb. Anyone got an comments on them?

Thanks

[sweekster]

From what I've seen and read they are. Both are 36mm only the 400 carbs have smaller jets and have gold slide/diaphram covers. BWeight is using 400 carbs with 600 jetting on his 4/6 hybrid.

[China_Racer_1]

Any clue what stock jetting is for a 400?

I need to get jets from Sudco I guess as well as a rubber diaphragm and a few other things.

Who makes a good cheap jet kit? Dynojet?

Anyone know? HELLOOOOOOO?

[ragedigital]

I used the DynoJet kit and had no issues with it. Ran WOT like a bat out of hell!

[fzrbrandon]

From what I've seen and read they are. Both are 36mm only the 400 carbs have smaller jets and have gold slide/diaphram covers. BWeight is using 400 carbs with 600 jetting on his 4/6 hybrid.

Hey Duane,

Unless I'm missing something here the 600 and 400 (1WG anyway) carbs are actually only 32mm. You must have been thinking of the 1k carbs (which I THINK are 36mm, aren't they?).

I, too, was/am needing to replace gaskets in my 1WG 400 carbs and I KNOW for a fact that the 600 kit won't work. The pilot screws on the 600s are in a position that requires a little notch in the float bowl cover that the 400 does not have. So there may be a similar situation between the 600 and the 3EN 400s.

Brandon

[sweekster]

Hey Duane,

Unless I'm missing something here the 600 and 400 (1WG anyway) carbs are actually only 32mm. You must have been thinking of the 1k carbs (which I THINK are 36mm, aren't they?).

I, too, was/am needing to replace gaskets in my 1WG 400 carbs and I KNOW for a fact that the 600 kit won't work. The pilot screws on the 600s are in a position that requires a little notch in the float bowl cover that the 400 does not have. So there may be a similar situation between the 600 and the 3EN 400s.

Brandon

Well no I was thinking of 400 and 600 carbs but I also can't say you're missing anything. There's conflicting info out there in regards to the 400 and 600 now that I double checked. I'm seeing where they are listed as having 32mm, 36mm and even 38mm (the 600 in that case). Totally possible but I've always been told they both measured at 36mm and were pretty much identical. The EXUP 1k and ThunderAce have always had 38mm (R1 is 40mm). The Genesis 1k was 36mm.

As far as jet kits go Factory Pro and DynoJet are pretty much equal in price. I'm running the Factory Pro in my bike though.

[fzrbrandon]

Hey Duane,

Unless I'm missing something here the 600 and 400 (1WG anyway) carbs are actually only 32mm. You must have been thinking of the 1k carbs (which I THINK are 36mm, aren't they?).

I, too, was/am needing to replace gaskets in my 1WG 400 carbs and I KNOW for a fact that the 600 kit won't work. The pilot screws on the 600s are in a position that requires a little notch in the float bowl cover that the 400 does not have. So there may be a similar situation between the 600 and the 3EN 400s.

Brandon

Well no I was thinking of 400 and 600 carbs but I also can't say you're missing anything. There's conflicting info out there in regards to the 400 and 600 now that I double checked. I'm seeing where they are listed as having 32mm, 36mm and even 38mm (the 600 in that case). Totally possible but I've always been told they both measured at 36mm and were pretty much identical. The EXUP 1k and ThunderAce have always had 38mm (R1 is 40mm). The Genesis 1k was 36mm.

As far as jet kits go Factory Pro and DynoJet are pretty much equal in price. I'm running the Factory Pro in my bike though.

LOL! So I'm reading through this again and it looks like Steve is indeed looking for jet kits as opposed to gasket kits (the word "rebuilding" kind of threw me there). My bad. Regardless, I know my 3HE 600 and 1WG 400 carbs are both 32mm and many of the parts LOOK to be interchangeable (including jets albeit with the appropriate sizes). In fact, the float assemblies even look real similar on the banks that I have at least. However, the slide / diaphragm design is quite a bit different (may function the same though) as is the jet block assembly (which may mean different flow from the float bowl and on through the carb). I DO seem to recall somewhere reading about guys who have interchanged carbs betweeen bikes (400 carbs to a 600 and vice versa) and really only needing to worry about the jet sizes & needles. I'm just speculating at this point though so I can't say for sure. Also, I AM talking 1WG 400 and NOT 3EN so it may be a moot point.

Thanks for making me looking at this again more clearly!

[China_Racer_1]

No I ned Gaskets as well. I need a total rebuild for these things. I will measure them up and take pictures and send them of to Sudco for the rebuild parts I need. I need internal rubber boots, or rings all sorts of little tid bits that I think only Sudco would have for these.

I see Factory Pro has jet kits I guess I need a stage 3 then I will have some port and polish work done a 2mm over bore a new header and tail pipe. This will be winter project stuff but I need the lead time to order them and get them shipped in here.

Thanks for the info though still a bit confused on the gasket kit. I guess Sudco would know.

[fzrbrandon]

No I ned Gaskets as well. I need a total rebuild for these things. I will measure them up and take pictures and send them of to Sudco for the rebuild parts I need. I need internal rubber boots, or rings all sorts of little tid bits that I think only Sudco would have for these.

I see Factory Pro has jet kits I guess I need a stage 3 then I will have some port and polish work done a 2mm over bore a new header and tail pipe. This will be winter project stuff but I need the lead time to order them and get them shipped in here.

Thanks for the info though still a bit confused on the gasket kit. I guess Sudco would know.

Post up a pic of the float bowl cover. That way I might be able to compare it to the 3HE 600 and 1WG 400 covers to see what MIGHT work. I would think that as long as the rubber is the same distance around you could make a gasket from a different set work (although I really think that contour for the pilot screws on the 600 carbs would be a problem). Here's what the 600 float bowl looks like (notice the the contour on the bottom for said pilot screw):

http://www.fzronline.com/forum/gallery2 ... itemId=910

Another pic with a funky angle:

http://www.fzronline.com/forum/gallery2 ... itemId=912

[China_Racer_1]

Is this enough pics or you need more?

What do I haev and what should I get for jets?

I got a 95.5 in there right now on teh main jet the bike ran terrible with it in there.

Alsothe carbs were quite filthy so I cleaned them u pand will use the air compressor to blow out any debri.
I am sure a lot fo the issues were blocked air or fuel ways. the jets are trashed mostly all gunked up in there.



Before and after


All clean now


Parts


Slide


Top


jets

[fzrbrandon]

Okay. Now we're getting somewhere. Those look VERY much like 600 carbs. The jet block assembly, diaphragms / slides, diaphragm covers, and float bowl casting look exactly the same as the 600s. As for your float bowl cover gaskets, I think you're safe to go with the 600 kit as I'm fairly certain that these ARE from a 600. I don't see the floats in any of the pics but I'm also willing to bet the 600 needle valves will be fine (again - because they're probably 600 carbs - redundant enough for ya? ). The kits (1 for each carb) come with everything for the overhaul - which would include the cover & jet block gaskets, o-ring (see small hole on bottom / left of carb body in pic #5), needle valve, etc.

As for jetting, you got me there. I couldn't even begin to make a recommendation. For 1, I'm trying to figure a lot of this stuff out myself! For 2, I'm sure you're motor is nowhere near stock so it may just be a bit of trial and error on your part to see what works best for your set-up and location. I DO know that stock main jetting for a 1WG is 87.5 (Mikuni sizing). Not sure about the 3ENs though.

***EDIT*** I'm just now noticing that one of the floats IS actually barely visible in pic #3 (to the left). It looks like it's maroon in color. The 600 floats that I have seen are orange. I THINK I've seen white also but they may have been for a 1WG 400. I don't recall. So... I'm now wondering if the 3EN carbs ARE in fact the same casting and internals as the 3HE 600s. Hmmm.... Either way, it looks like you'd be safe with the 600 rebuild kits.

***EDIT (again)***

I dug up a bit more info for you and found this:

http://www.rampant-racing.com/fzr400models.html

You can see by this chart that it looks like the 1WG and 3EN motors are VERY similar in spec (IF they are in fact different at all). The trannies even have the same ratios so my guess is that they may be the same. So... Having said that, have a look at this:

http://www.dynojet.com/pdf/4126.pdf

This is the jet kit for a 1WG 400. You can see on the first page which jets are included and the second page has their (DynoJet's) recommended jetting depending on your intake / exhaust set-up. This is assuming no major mods to the engine though. Hopefully it'll give you a square 1 to start from regardless.

BTW, they cleaned up REALLY nice. For the jets, carefully run a small gauge guitar string (or something similar) through the bore. That'll clear out any of the stubborn gunk. I usually let them soak in a little cup of carb cleaner first.

Hope that helps,
Brandon

[China_Racer_1]

Brandon,
Thanks a bunch this is a huge huge help and a step in the right direction for me.

Much appreciated

Steve

[fzrbrandon]

Brandon,
Thanks a bunch this is a huge huge help and a step in the right direction for me.

Much appreciated

Steve

You got it. Let us know how it all goes.

Brandon

[China_Racer_1]

Ok so my dumb question of the day is I got a 400cc bike that is using 3en or as we have determined fzr-600 carbs.

So do I get a kit for the 400 or for the 600.

I would think the 600 which leads me to the next question

There are 2 kits shown on the dyno jet web site.

http://www.dynojet.com/pdf/4129HA.pdf

http://www.dynojet.com/pdf/4129.pdf


which one should I use and what is the difference. I can not see one.

I guess the K&N filters its the way to go since I am not in possession of an air box and want to run pods or individual filters anyway.

[fzrbrandon]

Ok so my dumb question of the day is I got a 400cc bike that is using 3en or as we have determined fzr-600 carbs.

So do I get a kit for the 400 or for the 600.

I would think the 600 which leads me to the next question

There are 2 kits shown on the dyno jet web site.

http://www.dynojet.com/pdf/4129HA.pdf

http://www.dynojet.com/pdf/4129.pdf


which one should I use and what is the difference. I can not see one.

I guess the K&N filters its the way to go since I am not in possession of an air box and want to run pods or individual filters anyway.

Hmmm... That's kind of a tough one. On the one hand, the jets in the 600 kits are going to be way too big. On the other hand, I'm not really sure whether the needles in the 600 kit would be okay or not.. Yes, they are 600 carbs (so we believe anyways). However, the needles for the 600 kit are probably designed,... well... for a 600. The tapers and clip position spacing / placement may be different on them compared to whats on the 400 needles so that's the the thing to figure out really. The thing to do maybe would be to somehow measure from the slide face (where the needle pokes through) to the center of the venturi. That way you could at least see whether or not it's the same distance. If it IS, I would say definitely go with the 400 needles (which means getting the 400 jet kit - 4126). The reason for this is that the needle doesn't know whether it's a 400 carb body or a 600 carb body - and it doesn't care. In other words, any given taper width (depending on your clip position) will be in the same position in relation to the venturi regardless of the fact that they're 600 carb bodies. If the distance IS different, well then you may need to do some experimenting. My gut tells me that it's going to be the same on either or. Interestingly enough, when you look at the factory manuals for the 3HE 600 and the 1WG 400, both of them list Mikuni BDST32 as the carb type / model (even though they do in fact look different - go figure). I've actually got a spare set of 600 carbs sitting around along with the 400 carbs for the track bike (that still need to be gone through). If I have some time tomorrow, I'll try to get some measurements for you.

BTW, the 4129HA kit is basically a more specialized kit for those at higher altitudes (hence, "HA"). You'll notice that the jets that come with the kit are a little smaller to accommodate the less dense air found at higher altitudes.

Brandon