anyone turbo their FZR?

[cad600]

I was hopping Diztroy would chime in here on this. Jay, you and I had conversed about it a little. It can be done. It is very tricky. Just because the OEM's failed doesn't mean it should not be tried again. The tuning part is the most difficult because you'll have to use a custom computer to control it and it would in no way be as efficient as it should be. The fabrication of all the components isn't that bad, but that is what would make it not as efficient. Fabricate adaptors so you can mount the EFI from an R6 in place of the carb boots and fabricate the header so you get the correct pressure from each cylinder. Not much more to it than that, relatively speaking of course. I think the key here is to take it slowly to do each part correctly. If it is half ass'd, it won't work right. I agree with Rage, I would love to see this as a functioning road bike.
Here is a link to the exhaust manifold and turbo mount that Diztroy made for his YZF600. If you look at his build post on that forum, he shows everything needed to install a turbo on one of these bikes.
http://www.oldskoolyzf.com/gallery2/mai ... itemId=529

Although, I think the best way to go about doing this would be to start with the correct motor. The YZF600 motor taken from the Bimota YB9-SRI would be the best place to start since it is already fuel injected. Unfortunately, those are very rare to come by and very very expensive.

[megaloxana]

You might want to purchase this book or head to your library

Here's a linkthat will help you in understanding the problems associated with turboing carbs

[nynoah]

Turboing a non turbo motor is a HUGE undertaking. Esp for carbs. Because the our carbs are suction based. I would think that flat sides would be needed at a bare minimum. Fuel injection is a big plus too. I deal in turbo cars in the past. There is a lot involved in a turbo motor that is different. You would HAVE to lower your compression on a motorcycle motor too. I suggest a blowoff valve or bypass valve setup. Fuel injection is a real plus because you can get a MAP or MAF sensor in there to measure boost pressure. Some kind of aftermarket spark control to advance or retard timing is needed too. My favorite after market set up is the one made by 034 motorsports. Best thing out there for the money. But this for cars.

[match417]

Turboing a non turbo motor is a HUGE undertaking. Esp for carbs. Because the our carbs are suction based. I would think that flat sides would be needed at a bare minimum. Fuel injection is a big plus too. I deal in turbo cars in the past. There is a lot involved in a turbo motor that is different. You would HAVE to lower your compression on a motorcycle motor too. I suggest a blowoff valve or bypass valve setup. Fuel injection is a real plus because you can get a MAP or MAF sensor in there to measure boost pressure. Some kind of aftermarket spark control to advance or retard timing is needed too. My favorite after market set up is the one made by 034 motorsports. Best thing out there for the money. But this for cars.

thanks for the prewarning, i've been to a performance tuning school though, it's about the only schooling I have besides high school.., so i kindof know what i'm getting into, but the turbo'd carbs is a first for me. I'm only using low boost, so compression ratio doesn't need to be lowered. And I already have something worked out for timing retard if it is needed, but with me only using 1 - 2 psi, i doubt i'll need to retard the timing. The only thing i'm really concerned about is how well the YZF600 carbs are going to handle force induction, even at just 2 psi.

edit: oh and BOV's aren't really necessary with low psi.

[DEMORAL1ZE]

I RUN A VORTEC SUPERCHARGER ON MY 89 FOX MUSTANG. I RUN AN INJECTED 5.8. MY POINT IS THAT MY FRIEND RUNS THE SAME SUPERCHARGER ON HIS CARBED STANG. U HAVE TO HAVE A SPECIAL "BLOW THROUGH" CARB FOR FORCED INDUCTION. OTHER WISE U END UP WITH COMPETEING PRESSURES IN THE CARB. VENTURI VACUUM PLAYS A HUGE ROLE IN CARB FUNCTIONS....


JUST MY TWO CENTS................DEMO

[95FZR600]

I would buy a fuel injected bike before I turbo-charged an 89-96 or whatever FZR.

[megaloxana]

I dont think anyone should be saying "dont you dare turbo your fzr!"... Its been done before, and if anyone else wants to do it for whatever reason then they should. Lets combine our knowledge so we can get a good thread going for any future reference to the subject. Yes there are better ways to get the power results, we know. People do things for whatever reasons.

[sweekster]

Heh...You've already had enough people saying you shouldn't do it because it's so much work. I say get yourself a spare motor "just in case" and try it. If you're so willing to take the time and make the much needed effort to cram and force all this YZF stuff onto an FZR engine and make it all work, you might as well throw the turbo in there as well. If it blows a seal or two..you have the spare motor to drop in there and ride and reason to build up the other motor to your liking. But make sure you take a good amount of pics and add it to your build thread...

[match417]

demo..there's no need for all caps bro, i don't know if you're mad or trying to get a point across or what. I know the basics about how carbs work, and i know about venturi's, and how Bernoulli's Principle plays it's role in carburetors. YZF600 carbs have velocity stacks that by themselves increase the flow of air (or velocity) through the carbs. So i know enough about carbs to experiment instead of knowing what I know and thinking "it can't be done". I have the mindset of "i'll figure out how someway or another", and even through failed attempts at stuff, I still learn something. Who knows, i may come up with a modified design for a carburetor..I already know the science behind it and how everything works.

Now that I think about it though, how well will the diaphragms handle forced air, the suction sucks the air out of the diaphragm side, resulting in the main needle lifting for the main jets to release fuel, and the forced air replaces that air that is sucked out, so the slides won't raise..hmm. Maybe I would need smaller mains. Or if i got brave and put a slight angle on the bottom of the slides so the forced air coming through pushes the slides up to replace the vacuum. And they would work like normal when there is no forced air coming through.

I should install an O2 sensor, and replace the slide/diaphragms with an electromagnet that can raise and lower depending on the O2 sensor reading...

[cad600]

You know the carb thing could be a non-issue if you wanted to machine some fittings so the fuel injection from a '03-'05 R6 can fit onto the bike. After that it is dealing with either a "Mega Squirt" or "Ignitech" computer to control everything. That would accomplish the fuel injection so adding the turbo will be a little easier.

I'm just thinking that since you went through the issue of adding YZF carbs to a FZR, why not go one step further. Know what I mean. But if it is the challenge you're looking for in turboing a carb bike, then you've picked a good one.

[bucket]

From what I have read keeping carbs in tune w/ a turbo is a pain, every time you ride the bike you'll probably have to mess with them. Thats the only reason I'm saying go with FI it will be easier to tune and adjust.You might end up putting just as much time and money in to making the carbs work.

[match417]

Idea!

So here's my idea of how it could work, and i wish i would have been around to think about this 20 years ago, i could have patented it and possibly have made a little money, i don't know..it would probably cost too much to mass produce anything like this for yamaha or anyone to sell anyway...i would probably never attempt this because I don't have the money, and i don't have the time to create the tubing or try fitting everything together, making a venturi..ugh, all of this would take forever, but maybe someone has enough spare time to actually attempt this..if you do i'll help out in whatever way i can with the design

the science behind the venturi is a little complex. When the diameter of the tubing changes, the velocity of the air increases through the tubing, somehow this creates a negative pressure effect on the walls on the venturi, so the walls have pressure pulling in basically. This is Bernoulli's Principle at work, the suction or "lift" created on the walls of the tubing is the same "lift" that makes planes lift off of the ground, the increased speed of air over the wings pulls it upward in an attempt to normalize the increasing pressure. This is what sucks the fuel into the carburetors, it's not as simple as air flowing through a tube with a diaphragm and some jets, the fuel has to be sucked into the venturi, so the ports are placed somewhere in the venturi so the fuel will be sucked out of the bowls due to the pressure in the carbs trying to be normalized, this is why all carbs have venturi's. In the picture below, the air/fuel mix would be sucked out of the carbs into the venturi (4) as the air is forced from the turbo, through the venturi, around the carbs (3), and back toward the venturi. In theory this should work..but would be too expensive to mass produce. And the bike would have more tubing than engine.... I would also put the turbo in front of the muffler behind the pegs with the tubing running up from that, then splitting into 4 to go to each carburetor.

I don't think the air from the turbo would go up into the carbs because the butterfly would be almost all the way closed unless the throttle is rolled hard, so the air should theoretically follow the path of least resistance and go straight through the venturi and around the tubing. Under normal idle, the turbo shouldn't be spooling fast enough to create a lot of air flow, so the bike would probably run like normal by sucking through the air filter on top of the carbs.

This would be a tubing nightmare.... I would put couplers in at least two places around the loop that goes around the carbs, just so it would be easy to pull the carbs off without pulling the entire turbo piping off.

excuse the semi-rough mspaint drawing..its all i have to draw on
1. air filter setup, separate from the turbo. would need some sort of home made intake manifold, but it could possibly get in the way of the tubing.
2. carburetor assembly
3. 1 inch diameter tubing
4. Venturi, probably 1/2 inch to 3/4 inch diameter..
5. turbo

[reelrazor]

You are describing a draw thru turbo system.

Nothing new.

[match417]

crap..really? hmm..oh well, it's too complex for me to want to set it up unless i was getting paid to. so oh well, i guess i'm leaving the fzr n/a.

[match417]

i haven't looked it up exactly what it is yet, but i thought draw thru turbo'd carbs were where the turbo sucks through the carbs, so a carb is basically placed between the turbo and filter, so it sucks in fuel and air and forces it directly into the engine. Or am i wrong and that's called something else and the draw through is what i described?