need YZF600R carb swap info...

[shredex]

I say put these on instead of the yzf600 carbs
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/04-06-YA ... 240%3A1318

[match417]

I say put these on instead of the yzf600 carbs
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/04-06-YA ... 240%3A1318

HAH! if they were the same size, that would be awesome..i'm pretty sure the block is wider and the ports are farther away from each other..

Oh and the wires on the side of the carbs is the tps sensor and is not needed.

If that is what it is, then what the crap does yamaha have that there for? increased power to the fuel pump when you really roll on the throttle? so the pump provides more gas..but i have no idea. There is no reason to have a TPS on a carb'd system.

[FasterThanUr]

I say put these on instead of the yzf600 carbs
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/04-06-YA ... 240%3A1318

HAH! if they were the same size, that would be awesome..i'm pretty sure the block is wider and the ports are farther away from each other..

Oh and the wires on the side of the carbs is the tps sensor and is not needed.

If that is what it is, then what the crap does yamaha have that there for? increased power to the fuel pump when you really roll on the throttle? so the pump provides more gas..but i have no idea. There is no reason to have a TPS on a carb'd system.

I think the tps go's to the ecu to advance or retard the timing depending on how much your throttle is opened.

Here's the specs for the YZF carbs

36mm Keihin downdraft carburetors
• Main Jet #155; CA mdl = #148
• Main Air Jet #80
• Jet Needle #1,4: N3FC #2,3: N1YF
• Needle Jet 2.6
• Pilot Air Jet 1 #140
• Pilot Outlet 0.9
• Pilot Jet #38

[dru86]

I'm running yzf600 carbs on my fzr660, using a fzr600 airbox with the holes enlarged to take the yzf600 boots. The snorkel is also trimed. The TPS is hooked up too. It has great pull form about 4.5K revs to redline however need to sort out the bottom end.

This is the current jetting with a K&N and factorypro stage 1 jetkit:
128 mains
Needle on position 3 with washer underneath
stock float high (needs to be lowered to lean out bottom end)
mixture screws and 3.5(also needs to be leaned out)

Having coolant run through the carbs is unnecessary, it's going to heat up the carbs not cool them which is not what you want.

[deernet]

I'm running yzf600 carbs on my fzr660, using a fzr600 airbox with the holes enlarged to take the yzf600 boots. The snorkel is also trimed. The TPS is hooked up too. It has great pull form about 4.5K revs to redline however need to sort out the bottom end.

This is the current jetting with a K&N and factorypro stage 1 jetkit:
128 mains
Needle on position 3 with washer underneath
stock float high (needs to be lowered to lean out bottom end)
mixture screws and 3.5(also needs to be leaned out)

Having coolant run through the carbs is unnecessary, it's going to heat up the carbs not cool them which is not what you want.

I'm really considering trying this. You say your TPS is hooked up? I didn't think the FZR had a connection for TPS. Wonder how it would run with stock jetting?

[match417]

i've thought about running a full YZF600 harness/cdi/relays and everything since most of the stuff on my bike is YZF600 anyway, then I wont' have all of the electrical tape and rewired connections that I have and i'll get to take advantage of whatever the TPS is for. Plus both of my switches are about to be YZF600 after the carbs are on..I've gotten entire electrical systems for bikes on ebay before for only $80, that was a steal..CDI and everything. If i look hard enough i'll find a deal like that again.

[reelrazor]

Just for the record, nowadays the knock sensors are often the spark plugs themselves. Crank position sensors are easy to create on the stock flywheel.

And, open loop fuel (no active management of lambda) injection can offer enormous inprovement in power if they are mapped correctly.

[match417]

Just for the record, nowadays the knock sensors are often the spark plugs themselves.

??? huh? No, that doesn't make any sense. Spark plugs are output devices, they don't sense anything, and they aren't designed to sense anything. I work as a mechanic for a living, and every car I've seen has a knock sensor(well, newer, non-carb'd cars), the spark plugs aren't doubling as knock sensors..

[yamaha_george]

I'm running yzf600 carbs on my fzr660, using a fzr600 airbox with the holes enlarged to take the yzf600 boots. The snorkel is also trimed. The TPS is hooked up too. It has great pull form about 4.5K revs to redline however need to sort out the bottom end.

This is the current jetting with a K&N and factorypro stage 1 jetkit:
128 mains
Needle on position 3 with washer underneath
stock float high (needs to be lowered to lean out bottom end)
mixture screws and 3.5(also needs to be leaned out)

Having coolant run through the carbs is unnecessary, it's going to heat up the carbs not cool them which is not what you want.

I'm really considering trying this. You say your TPS is hooked up? I didn't think the FZR had a connection for TPS. Wonder how it would run with stock jetting?

Andrew,
he is running an R6 front end and thus possibly the R6 switchgear so TPS (throttle position sensor/system) may be available within the switch gear ?

That by the way is a wild guess as I know nothing about R6 wiring and have no schematics to hand :-}

[dru86]

The TPS changes the ignition timing depend on how much throttle you're giving it, It's a function of the ignition unit. I'm able to run the TPS as I have a aftermarket ignition unit which has the TPS function incorporated. The TPS makes a big difference in how responsive the engine is to changes in throttle position.

Here's an old timing map that i was running, the % on the side is how much the throttle is open.

[yamaha_george]

The TPS changes the ignition timing depend on how much throttle you're giving it, It's a function of the ignition unit. I'm able to run the TPS as I have a aftermarket ignition unit which has the TPS function incorporated. The TPS makes a big difference in how responsive the engine is to changes in throttle position.

Here's an old timing map that i was running, the % on the side is how much the throttle is open.

Hee Hee ,
I thought if i went fishhing I would get the correct answer, thanks Drew.
What does the aftermarket ignition require other than the "black Box" ?
Approx cost ?
Geo.

[reelrazor]

see below

[reelrazor]

Just for the record, nowadays the knock sensors are often the spark plugs themselves.

??? huh? No, that doesn't make any sense. Spark plugs are output devices, they don't sense anything, and they aren't designed to sense anything. I work as a mechanic for a living, and every car I've seen has a knock sensor(well, newer, non-carb'd cars), the spark plugs aren't doubling as knock sensors..

Okay. In my research into c-o-p setups I found this from Delphi.Read down to the 'ion sensing technology' part:

http://delphi.com/manufacturers/auto/po ... /igncoils/

"Delphi ion sense ignition systems also offer more precise misfire detection (determined by combustion results instead of speed calculations) and more accurate knock detection (measured by combustion signal not engine vibration). In an ion sense ignition system, the igniter, bias and buffer circuits are fully integrated and encapsulated in the coil as one unit."

And this patent issued paper from '03:
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6615811.html

"An ignition coil having ion sense capability with combustion and knock
outputs features improved determination of when to open and close a
combustion window during which a combustion signal indicative of the level
of combustion is calculated. The system also includes a knock window
during which a knock signal indicative of the level of knock is
determined. A PWM combustion signal is multiplexed on the same physical
line as a current flag signal, and, a PWM knock intensity signal is
multiplexed on the same physical line as a knock window signal, which
reduces system connections. Closed loop multicharge ignition is provided
with combustion detection during multicharging to ensure the availability
of knock detection, thereby providing a longer effective spark burn time
while still allowing for knock detection."



The auto manus were very fast to adapt this technology. My first choice to c-o-p my bike was a set of coils from an '05 Nissan truck (free to me due to replacement engine coming complete with coils). In researching what the four wires to the coil do, I find that one of them is the ion sensing output wire that acts as a knock sensor.

Harley (harley -for god's sake!) has been using ION sensing using teh spark plugs as knock (among other parameters) sensors since 2001.

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stori ... 31&EDATE=0

And the TPS used on carbuerted yamahas was/is also a safety device. It has been a- drive you nuts- device on their sleds for going on 20 years. It senses "throttle closed at the handlebar, but throttle open at carbs-must be a stuck throttle" and kills ignition.

[match417]

interesting..I still wouldn't say it's on most newer cars, but we don't get many newer cars at the shop so i wouldn't really know. Now that you describe it, i saw an odd c.o.p. on a late 90's maxima a few months ago. It had a fat box on top of the c.o.p. but i never looked into it. If i remember correctly though, there is still an actual knock sensor on the car, under the intake manifold.

[reelrazor]

interesting..I still wouldn't say it's on most newer cars, but we don't get many newer cars at the shop so i wouldn't really know. Now that you describe it, i saw an odd c.o.p. on a late 90's maxima a few months ago. It had a fat box on top of the c.o.p. but i never looked into it. If i remember correctly though, there is still an actual knock sensor on the car, under the intake manifold.

In looking for c-o-p units compatible with our TCI ignitions most of the units I look at have a feedback lead. So far I've only found the 'weaponX pencil coils' to be a straight inductive ign coil.

When I brought this up to my buddy Dave who owns a car repair shop and who used to be an fi/ecm tech at Roush(late 80's-early 90's) he said anything obdII compliant is using the spark plug to sense and count misfires and that it is a small step from there to sensing abnormal spark events (detonation). He says it is the ideal because it senses single cylinder det and so the ecm can tweak just that cylinder as needed to control it. Also pointed out that the Saab trionic ECU used ion sensing in the mid 90's, Volvo and VW used a similar process, and he says the japanese were/are all over it.