Italian bikes?

[tommyj27]

I'll be honest, I don't really understand the appeal of overpriced Italian bikes. Why is it that people drool over Ducatis and MVs? Price for performance, it seems like you pay a substantial price premium to get one compared to the big four. Are they that far superior performance wise? The MotoGP standings would indicate not. Are people simply willing to pay more so the side of their ride says "Ducati"? Are they so much better looking bikes that it justifies the price difference? Not in my opinion.

[TomGun]

I hear what you are saying, and I agree that the Italian bikes are very expensive, compared to the Japanese. I am seriously considering on buying a used Ducati. It seems that many of the good used ones are comparably priced to used Yamaha, Suzuki, Honda and Kawasaki bikes, which is a good thing. I'd rather someone else take the initial hit on the depreciation before I buy one. Italian bikes to me are just plain sexy, and I admit!! I would own one partially because of the badge, and also because I appreciate the Italian styling, and love the way they sound. IMO

Ciao

[abs929cbrrr]

I think its because they are kinda rare. i dont droll though, i know better then to buy a bike i'd have a hard time selling haha.

[ragedigital]

From what I hear, they have a lot better fit and finish than the Big 4. The guy I met up with in St. Louis with the MV said that the paint job alone is 10 times better than any Japanese bike.

However; paint doesn't add up to that much. When you look at a new R1 and a MV Agusta, you will notice 2 things. The MV already has all the goodies: Ohlins suspensions, brembo brakes, brembo rims, etc... Sure the Yamaha can add all of those components, but they are budget conscious. If you add all those things to a new R1, you'd be in the same ballpark as the MV or Ducati. Actually, you'd end up paying more since they're replacement parts.

What I'm really saying is that the MVs and high-end Ducatis are close to race ready out of the box and your Honda is not.

Get with it and go buy a Desmo, so I can ride it next time I'm up there....

Note: Casey Stoner does very well on his Ducati. Troy Bayliss just won another championship on his Ducati... They have the low and mid range that the Jap bikes lack.

[cad600]

It also has to do with the Japenese wanting to sell 100,000 copies each year and MV selling 10,000. Ferrari was quoted as saying that they would produce 1 less than the market would bear when they introduced the F50. It's just one way to keep values up.

While I think they have fallen from the lead pack - back in '94 when the 916 came out, Ducati was light years ahead of any other manufacturer on styling. And the 1098 helps get them back to that way of thinking.

[megaloxana]

I was at the dealership scoping out some of the Aprilia RSV's they had on the floor. Definatly a hefty price tag at over $17g's but the quality really seems top notch. Not to mention the full ohlin's suspension and damper, brembo brakes, some SICK aluminum welding over the frame and swinger, carbon fiber all over, over 140 HP @10k, fairly low weight for the size, very unique styling and color scheme, and some nice wheels to go with it. The bike also looks very comfortable. The new R1's are like $12g's so really the Aprilia is a better deal granted you're after the best components. But really i think it comes down to the feel of the ride regarding your engine choice. You usually go jap if you want the screamin 4 or italian if you want the low end grunt of a v-twin.

[ragedigital]

I thought that MVs would hold their value better than they do. Here is the bike that the guy I know in St. Louis bought:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 0298465003

Yeah, he paid $14k for a 2007 MV Agusta with less than 1700 miles on it.

[Target30]

Funny thing is, you pull up next to a squid on his 2008 gsxr(sorry rage, couldnt help it!) and he is more likely to look at it and say, "Agusta? that like a honda or suzuki knockoff?"

[tommyj27]

What I'm really saying is that the MVs and high-end Ducatis are close to race ready out of the box and your Honda is not.

Sure it is, it says RR on it.

Note: Casey Stoner does very well on his Ducati. Troy Bayliss just won another championship on his Ducati... They have the low and mid range that the Jap bikes lack.

Stoner is phenomonal, and I think a lot has to do with the rider, otherwise you'd think you'd see more Ducati guys on the podium regularly. I'm not saying Ducati is garbage, they make great bikes. And gaging performance by looking at motogp results is probably a bogus metric since they're all running the best, no matter the cost.

The more expensive component set explains it to some extent, but how much performance difference is there between brembo and nissin/tokico/sumimoto/etc. (excuse my ignorance)? Seems to me like the difference between buying a Viper and buying a Lambo (maybe I just answered my own question).

[Xian_13]

If you have to ask that question, no answer will suffice.

Its like comparing a Mazda Miata, to a Lotus Elise.


XIII

[YAM93]

What I'm really saying is that the MVs and high-end Ducatis are close to race ready out of the box and your Honda is not.

The more expensive component set explains it to some extent, but how much performance difference is there between brembo and nissin/tokico/sumimoto/etc. (excuse my ignorance)? Seems to me like the difference between buying a Viper and buying a Lambo (maybe I just answered my own question).

This is the case as Rage indicates... you only notice most of these performance component differences on the RACE TRACK. Where you're likely to get more or less "brake fade" from one caliper / pad setup than another. Otherwise for street use I call B.S.

Only Aprilia, MV Agusta or Ducati i'd get is a used one, and only if i really didn't know what else to do with that much cash.

They're making a big deal about the new KTM 1190 RC8 in the last 2 issues of AMA magazine. I say, for 19,000 greenbacks i'd rather have a proven Honda or Yamaha and the nicest gear I can have, and a nice garage to keep it in. They keep saying how great it is on the track. Hell, take the same rider and I bet back to back they could put down the same numbers on any track using my 954, which has less horsepower but is much lighter. It's all a big stupid overpriced marketing ploy. You'd have to be blind to not see it. (and yeah, i know KTM is Austrian)

[slayermd]

Why would anyone need Brembo brakes and Olhins forks for the street?

I think the apeal of having a V-twin over a 4 is the best part. Sure Ducs sound like they are going to implode but they do perform good. BUT.....I have heard of horror stories about Duc's. Here is a good story, and this story too.

[the_finch]

The more expensive component set explains it to some extent, but how much performance difference is there between brembo and nissin/tokico/sumimoto/etc. (excuse my ignorance)? Seems to me like the difference between buying a Viper and buying a Lambo (maybe I just answered my own question).

May be the difference is between a Z06 Vette and Ferarri/Lamborghini. Z06 out-accellerates them every time (except for maybe ther very top-end Italians) and will hang with them on the road course and autocross (LeMans, anyone?). The only real difference is going to be the driver, badging/price tag, and the very minute understeer/oversteer differences between mid-engine and front engine RWD platforms.

In the motorcycle world, I think the new Buell 1125R has Ohlins front suspension, and 146 hp on tap from that 72 degree twin. The engine design is actually based off of an abandoned Aprilia design from the 80's, and the bike, while not purpose built for the track, it's priced a little higher than a R1 but alot less than a Italian, and would probably provide comparable performance. And theres the bonus of being able to have it serviced at any H-D Dealership in the country, and we all know we aren't at a shortage of Harley dealerships.

I know the Buell salesman at the local H-D dealership and he's gonna let me test-ride a new 1125R before too long. He's a Buell convert fron his previous bike, a '06 CBR600RR, and I must admit, the 1125R's intrigue me more than a little bit. But my next bike (in probably 4-5 years) will probably be a 04-06 R1.

Discussion, anyone?

[sweekster]

In the motorcycle world, I think the new Buell 1125R has Ohlins front suspension, and 146 hp on tap from that 72 degree twin. The engine design is actually based off of an abandoned Aprilia design from the 80's, and the bike, while not purpose built for the track, it's priced a little higher than a R1 but alot less than a Italian, and would probably provide comparable performance. And theres the bonus of being able to have it serviced at any H-D Dealership in the country, and we all know we aren't at a shortage of Harley dealerships.

I know the Buell salesman at the local H-D dealership and he's gonna let me test-ride a new 1125R before too long. He's a Buell convert fron his previous bike, a '06 CBR600RR, and I must admit, the 1125R's intrigue me more than a little bit. But my next bike (in probably 4-5 years) will probably be a 04-06 R1.

Discussion, anyone?

The 1125R has a Rotax VTwin in it. A neighbor of mine test rode one a few months ago and said it was a pretty scary ride (as in faster than a mother).

[YAM93]

If those numbers for bhp are correct, my 954 has more horsepower, and i'll bet it's lighter as well. As far as torque it probably has me beat. Leave it to Buell to design something that's still catching up with sportbikes designed in 2003 and put a big price tag on it. "no replacement for displacement"-my ass.

No replacement for brains i say.