PROJECT DOKE

[willandrip]

I would not get involved with a 3HE system on a 1WG....never be right and too many fairing conflict problems.

You are correct in that Sandy's bike spares did have a poor rep for finish and material on systems.

Tyres.....the youth of today have not, for the majority , the slightest inclination of just how good even the poorest quality modern tyre is to those manufactured just 15 years ago.
Who rides like a daft c*nt in the wet anyhow...only a fool.

Get onto the 400 Greybike forum and ask for a system or advice... no shithead sellers on the FZR section.

Here's a pic.....never enough photo whoring on this forum now...its getting too boring.

[venari]

Didn't realise there was a difference between the 3HE & 1WG systems!

So if they are really that bad what alternatives do I have? I cant find any other manufacturer selling suitable header pipes!

Thought I'd try to find out how Black Widow are doing since their name change:
http://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic ... 27#4319727

You're totally right about photo whoring - is that a full micron system though? If so where can I get my hands on one!

Here's some computer wizardry on a 600cc:



Just added a thread on 400GreyBike to see if I can get some advice/a setup there:
http://www.400greybike.com/forum/viewto ... a0f889ab18

[willandrip]

I did have a feeling that some of Sandys gear was Delkavic orientated.

If the 400 kit is Delkavic rebranded ...I would recommend it.
I have a Delco on my TDM 850 and could not fault it for the money.
The s/s is not shit hot quality but the price was spot on and it fitted straight on in 20 minutes...perfect fit.
The can was top rate for the price.

Here's a proper 4JH... no photo editry...before refurb.


You do know a Fzr 600 3HE is a totally different bike to a Fzr 600R 4JH mind ....?????

[venari]

In all honesty I had no idea, I thought they were just different models of the same bike.

This is my first Yamaha (I've always had Hondas before now) and these bikes were around before I was born so I'm learning retrospectively.

I like the look of the 4JH! It looks much more chunky than my 400.

Got to admit, I'm hooked on these old bikes! Not a fan of the sharp shapes of the new sportsbikes, I think these bikes have a better balance of aggression and friendliness in their styling. Going to have to add a 4JH to my list now...

Yeah, Black Widow used to rebrand Delks but no idea if they still do.

[willandrip]

3HE Fzr600 is the predecessor to the 4JH Fzr600R (often called Foxeye).
Its a totally different bike....even called by a different model in USA/Canada and Europe (YZF 600R)

The 3HE is basically a bigger model of the early Fzr 400 (probably closest to the 3EN1 but without an Exup valve) though even then many parts are model specific.
This causes loads of mis-described items to be sold that DO NOT fit without major modification if at all.

This is a 3HE

[venari]

Bit the bullet and bought the black widow system last night. About 12 hours later its in my hands.

Initially it looks good. I won't have time to fit it until next week but I'll update when I get the chance.

New tyres and the wheels are in the garage waiting for them to get a quiet minute to fit them.

[willandrip]

Well you cannot moan about delivery times.

Like I say...the Delkovic system was spot on for the money. This only relevant if Delko is in cahoots with Sandy's.

Keep the system clean....this is where that AC 50 ? comes in....yes most gets burnt off but it narf helps to prevent corrosion. A good man would strip the fairing off regularly and clean the system properly after continued poor weather conditions...it will easily outlast the present owner's time with the bike in nearly all cases.

The new system will probably be half the weight of the original......
Did it have a removable baffle....if so leave it in. It did my head in when removed on my TDM and was immediately refitted once home.

In the other thread you linked : link
Once you put a s/s system on ANY bike it seems to alter the characteristics to an extent....it has to do with different metals flow capabilities apparently,heat retention blah,blah,blah. The cans always sound tinnier than chromed steel or ali.

[Evilchicken0]

Stainless has a higher "ping"

[venari]

Well, as I had removed the wheels to get the tyres fitted and I had removed the frame struts to replace them with straight ones I decided to bite the bullet...

I want to get the rear subframe powder coated (at the same time as the frame struts) so I took the rear end off too.

Now as it's apart I am looking at getting the rear shock refurbed or replaced - not that I have noticed any problems with it!

This is the deepest I've ever gone into this bike and I'm actually quite proud of myself for doing it! I just hope I can get it all back together when it comes back from powder coating.

Any tips on how to prepare the parts for powder coating - protecting threads, moving parts, grease, flaking paint etc etc etc...

[venari]

Oh and I forgot to mention - I stripped the thread on the rear axle using a nut on the end of it whilst whacking it... It had completely rusted to the bearings. Screwed up the bearings removing it too, are they hard to replace myself or should I get the garage to do it whilst the wheels are in there?

[willandrip]

Right...with powder coating all YOU do is remove any heavy grease / grime / oil /general filth.
It need not be perfect..just reasonably clean.

Powder coaters clean,mask threads and blind holes and then media blast or dip the item.
They do their own preparation so if there is contamination that ruins the finish it is their responsibility.
They do it right the first time so as to save expense. They do not trust final preparation by others
Your garage will not be coating but sending the part to a coater and adding their percentage to the cost.

Wheels will benefit from new bearings and seals anyhow...cheap as chips.
Very easy to refit...hard part is old bearing removal.
DO NOT skimp on bearing quality..the price difference on quality British , German or Japanese bearings versus Asian shite is the sum total of sweet fook all.....just a pound or so.

Warm up the wheel slightly with a heatgun/hairdryer and bearings out of a freezer in plastic bag virtually drop in.
You can drift them in with a large socket very easily too. Keep the bearings square...don't forget spacer tube.

Used replacement axle is readily available...its the thin locknut that is hard to source.

Standard upgrade for Genesis shock is Yamaha R6 2006 model shock with s/s replacement dogbones to compensate for slightly different shock lengths.
IIRC new dogbone hole centres are 138mm. Contact Kayla @ Projection Components."Stig" on here does them too.Both are UK vendors...Kayla probably does the small spacers if needed on the Genesis...(see link)
Google the mod. Its been done by thousands of owners now.
Cheapest shocks used to be German Ebay ..."Old stock takeoffs" circa £70 delivered to Uk...
Iv'e done loads of them....mint shock...far,far better than spongey old original which was made for lightweight Japanese riders even when new.

Pick the bones out of this.....viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1134&st=0&sk=t&sd=a.

IF you had used a substantial drift AND the large nut when knocking axle out rather than direct blows to axle..you would have saved threads....it's a step learning curve sometimes but as stated prev. "The man who does no wrong ..does nothing " Lol.


You are strongly advised to remove the s/a pivot when you have the bike down this far.
Check all bearings and those of the shock linkage assy.
Most will be solid with rust unless you are very lucky.....
This is very easy to do when at the shock replacement stage.
Biggest grief is finding means to support m/c when the s/a is being removed....make sure spindles are loosened and slide freely BEFORE you concoct some means to support it temporarily.

ADDITION : UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES use generic fixings to replace any u/s items on the shock linkage..although they may fit, the correct bolts are CRITICAL on this assy... I cannot stress this too much.

[willandrip]

[venari]

Thanks for the superb reply as always willandrip!!!

I've been in contact with both Stig and Kayla now and know I can source the dogbones and spacers I need for the conversion easily.

Cheapest shocks used to be German Ebay ..."Old stock takeoffs" circa £70 delivered to Uk...

Cheapest I could find a shock for was £100 including postage from ebay. So the actual conversion will cost a total of around £135.

Biggest grief is finding means to support m/c when the s/a is being removed....make sure spindles are loosened and slide freely BEFORE you concoct some means to support it temporarily.

Yep, sounds like a challenge. Where is the best place to buy all these new bearings? (Wheels, Swingarm, Shock)

Right...with powder coating all YOU do is remove any heavy grease / grime / oil /general filth.

The parts are all lined up, rinsed down and waiting for the powder coater to get back to me to let me know he can do it.
Considering chucking the swingarm on the pile too as it looks pretty rough at the moment although that's probably going overboard.

Used replacement axle is readily available...its the thin locknut that is hard to source.

Phew... found one

[venari]

Quick question: There's not much difference in price between aluminum and stainless steel dogbones. Obviously the aluminum ones will be lighter and less prone to rust BUT they wont be as strong... If I do a stoppie and drop it down to hard I don't want it bending... Or if I land an awesome double backflip wrong etc etc etc

Opinions?

[willandrip]

When I first started with these a few years ago...I had the same quandary...It was very soon and correctly pointed out
that the option of a 25 year old rusty,lightweight,worn out original shock with scabby dogbones versus a next to new
unit with compression/rebound settings and new s/s dogbones was a no brainer..Your choice.

Polish up and then use a scotch pad on the s/a.
With time and effort they can be brought back to nearly original finish...experiment with it.
Do it while the other parts are awaited..
P/coat looks overkill on the old rectangular box section 400 arm..good on the 600 units and 600 steel deltabox arms but shite on the alloy 400 unit.

Plenty of online bearing stockists.
IIRC..CMSL lists the bearing size on the fiche page if you go to details..use that sizing to order the new bearings from a bearing supplier.
They MAY not be 100% the quality of original fitment ...Yamaha do not fit shite bearings...but I doubt the replacements
will fail in your ownership.

All my conversions use S/S links.
Correct quality s/s bones wont rust...those two vendors both know the script.....its not like an exhaust that gets heated/cooled and left covered in shite..wipe them down after shitty weather...FFS wash the whole bike.