PROJECT DOKE

[Evilchicken0]

Hm...i guess firefly from the electric switch of a cheap LED-Light doesn't play soo well with fuel-damps

Where's your sense of adventure ???

[TomcatMJ]

Nope, i'm not a fan of the book "Suicide-Terrorism for Dummies" so i won't try to become a human Bomb in DIY-Manner

[venari]

An electronic tacho???? Why?
It was the clutch cable and I think it's just poorly positioned.
I've not tried using a lighter in the petrol tank to see if there's any bits of rust in there... Might give that one a miss but the magnet on a stick is ingenious!

Right, I was out in the rain earlier dismantling the bike.

I managed to get the fuel tank cover & the fairings off fairly easy but discovered a problem which may be more serious than the fueling issue... Take a look at the photos below...



Is this a right-off???





Where are the frame numbers on these bikes, could I just replace that strut?

Also, how the hell do I get to the carbs??? I can't get the fuel tank off to get to the jubilee clips on the airbox because of whatever this is:

[venari]

Managed to find the chassis number on the headstock so I think I'm OK to replace the struts. Just hit buy on a pair on eBay for £15 so I'm less concerned now...



I'm not worried about the surface rust as I was thinking of painting the subframe anyway.

[willandrip]

Just throw the frame rails away and replace them.

That is the fuel pump...it should not be in the way of the airbox clips....they are above that by a good distance.

The electronic speedo is driven by the TCI ignition box......cable tachos went out in the mid 80s.

[venari]

Just throw the frame rails away and replace them.

That is the fuel pump...it should not be in the way of the airbox clips....they are above that by a good distance.

The electronic speedo is driven by the TCI ignition box......cable tachos went out in the mid 80s.

Thanks willandrip

This is the newest bike I've ever owned at its a 1986 so I guess that makes sense.

I believe I need to remove the fuel tank to get to the jubilee clips which attach the airbox to the carbs?

The fuel pump is fitted to the base of the fuel tank.

I don't think the fuel pumps sounds very healthy either but it seems to get up to pressure OK.

V

[Evilchicken0]

Take the fuel tap lever off and don't loose the bolt, once that's gone you can lift the tank away (obviously take the holding bolts out).
Are the rails from a Genesis ??? I don't know if the 3en ones are the same or not. I'd use paint stripper on them, then wire brush, rust killer, 5 wheels silver and PU lacquer, works a treat and looks close to factory. this is a 3en2 rear subframe, before and after

[venari]

Take the fuel tap lever off and don't loose the bolt, once that's gone you can lift the tank away (obviously take the holding bolts out).
Are the rails from a Genesis ??? I don't know if the 3en ones are the same or not. I'd use paint stripper on them, then wire brush, rust killer, 5 wheels silver and PU lacquer, works a treat and looks close to factory. this is a 3en2 rear subframe, before and after

Thanks EC, I will try that with removal of the fuel tank! Although it does look like the fuel pump is mounted to the bottom of it???

In all honesty I don't know if the rails are from an 3en or a Genesis... I looked closely at the photos before hitting BUY and they did look right - all the right mountings in the right places as far as I could tell from the photos. For £15 I figured it was worth a punt.

I will let you know when they arrive!

I think I might need to update the title of this thread to a project thread seeing as I'm sure I'll have loads more questions and ideas to share as I get to know the bike better.

That painted finish looks the balls, what do you guys think of black painted frames? I saw some photos on the Archives site and I think it looks great!

[willandrip]

When you remove the tank leave the fuel pump connected to it.

Tank has 2 bolts at top rear and one long front bolt going through a large tubular bracket......remove the bracket and note its orientation for refitting.

If you look at the rear of the carbs you will see a 10mm sized fuel hose that has a red woven wrapping on it that is nipped on with a metal clip.
Squeeze the wings of the clip in and slide it down the hose a little way.
Gently lever the fuel pipe off the carb inlet...be careful..the carb fuel inlet T junction spigot is plastic.
Feel under the tank and unplug the electrical connection for the pump.
Wiggle the tank out.

You said earlier that the fuel pump sounds noisy......it does make a ticking noise when priming the carbs and is normal.

In your pic. showing fuel the pump; just to the left...that canister is a filter , there are also filters on the fuel tap itself that can be cleaned when the tap is removed.
As Evil states; remove the tap lever before attempting to remove the tank and don't lose the tiny X head screw that retains the lever.

[venari]

When you remove the tank leave the fuel pump connected to it.

Tank has 2 bolts at top rear and one long front bolt going through a large tubular bracket......remove the bracket and note its orientation for refitting.

If you look at the rear of the carbs you will see a 10mm sized fuel hose that has a red woven wrapping on it that is nipped on with a metal clip.
Squeeze the wings of the clip in and slide it down the hose a little way.
Gently lever the fuel pipe off the carb inlet...be careful..the carb fuel inlet T junction spigot is plastic.
Feel under the tank and unplug the electrical connection for the pump.
Wiggle the tank out.

You said earlier that the fuel pump sounds noisy......it does make a ticking noise when priming the carbs and is normal.

In your pic. showing fuel the pump; just to the left...that canister is a filter , there are also filters on the fuel tap itself that can be cleaned when the tap is removed.
As Evil states; remove the tap lever before attempting to remove the tank and don't lose the tiny X head screw that retains the lever.

Thanks so much willandrip and evil!!!!!

Great, so I've managed to remove the tank and airbox today. I've ordered a replacement fuel filter although the fuel seemed to be running through fine.

Since I started fiddling with the tank the fuel pump has become much more active, it werrs for about 30 seconds before clicking now but it doesn't seem to hold the pressure. Is this just because my fuel tank is open???

I think a plug pull is my next course of action before I start getting into the carbs. At least that way I'll be able to see if they are dry and be 100% confident that it's a fuelling issue.

Whilst I'm in there pulling plugs I'd like to replace them, am I right in thinking NGK - CR8E is my only real option?

[willandrip]

The fuel pump only operates until the bowls are full . This is the clicking noise you hear. Once the bowls are full the float valves prevent any further fuel being pumped into the carbs. This back pressure closes a connection in the pump and it stops operating.
You can do the same thing by simply pinching the fuel hose.
The pump also has a 5 seconds or so time out when fitted to the harness,....this is why when a bikes carbs are dry after being left standing it pays to flick the kill switch a few times or switch the ignition on/off so that the pump FULLY fills the carbs before attempting to start. It usually takes about 3 cycles from bone dry.
There is no pressure to hold really....it only fills the carbs and once about 3.5psi back pressure is applied it stops working.
The tank has no pressure....it feeds the pump by gravity.
Fzr 400/600 s would need no pump at all if the tank was always above 3/4 full....gravity would feed the carbs.

CR8E are the best plugs.....Nippon Denso are also good.....in the USA, owners use a very good and economic make
but I cannot remember its details...it costs about $2 or a quid in proper money.

Cut your HT leads back about 5mm at the plug cap end when you have the plugs out.
If you hold the freshly cut lead against an earth point you will see the full spark capabilities.

[venari]

Thanks again willandrip!

Well whilst I'm waiting for parts to arrive I want to look at my options for sprockets and chains.

The chain was stupidly tight when I bought the bike, its rusted and the sprockets are like razors. So what was the original set up on these bikes or more pertinently, what is the best set up?

Thanks

[TomcatMJ]

Original Setup for a 3BF is 19 teeth frontsprocket, 55 at the rearsprocket and a 428 chain with 130 ehm..(searching for the translation of "Kettenglieder"..hm.. )...chainlinks!... first generation of 1WG should be similar, often the setup is changed to 14/47 with a 520 chain here in germany and due to the wider measurements of the 520 chain its got 104 or 114 chainlinks if my brains not overheated due to actual bit of fever (dunno if geardata software includes chainsizes for calculations or only sprocketsizechanges)

[Evilchicken0]

The original 428 chain looks narrow but it does the job like all chains as long as it's clean and lubed. I put a 520 on one of my 3TJ's, a 520 is of course marginally heavier.

[willandrip]

I too consider the 428 to look a bit femmer for perhaps 60 HP.
520 ...although somewhat more expensive is fitted to the majority of my 400s.