FZR600 Resurrection and Frame Swap?

[FZR-kyle]

I finally got the bolt for the carburetor, I just put it in a bit and turned it on, but I haven't synced it yet, but it runs SOOOOOOOO much better now. I'm going to try to do the front brakes tonight after I get home from school. and then synchronize the carbs this weekend.

[FZR-kyle]

I was trying to get the brakes fixed and am at a loss for what to try next. My Haines manual is no help at all, so I looked at the Wiki on how to bleed the brakes. It said:

Remove the front master cylinder reservoir cap. You must keep the reservoir full of fluid during all bleeding operations to prevent air from re-entering the system.
2. Make sure all banjo bolts are tight and that the bleed screws are tight.
3. Loosen one hose on the front caliper and remove it.
4. Pinch banjo fitting on the end of this loose hose with you thumb and index finger and pump the brake lever slowly until fluid squirts out between your fingers. (this is priming the master cylinder)
5. Re-install the brake hose and tighten the banjo bolt.
6. Pump the brake lever and watch in the reservoir for air bubbles. Air bubbles coming up from the master cylinder means that the brake hoses and calipers are filling with fluid.
7. After pumping the brake lever for what seems like eternity you should feel the brake lever getting stiffer as if your brakes are working but are spongy.
8. Now you have to bleed the air out of the calipers.
9. With the brake lever released or in the not applied position, open a bleed screw on one caliper.
10. Then slowly press the brake lever watching the fluid that comes out of the bleed screw, and hold the brake lever.
11. With the brake lever pressed all the way tighten the bleed screw.
12. Slowly release the brake lever.
13. Continue #9 through #12 until no air bubbles come out of the bleed screws and repeat for any remaining bleed screws.
14. The brake lever should have a solid feel to now and if not continue pumping and bleeding until you do. Check and add fluid if necessary and re-install the reservoir cover.
15. After a few days of riding bleed the calipers again to assure that all air is out.

On step 6, how long does "eternity" take? I was pumping the friggin brake lever for over 10 minutes and it felt EXACTLY the same as when I started and no more air bubbles were coming up from the lines. I primed the master cylinder and got fluid out at the banjo bolt on the 3rd or so pump.

At first I thought (and hoped a little) that I had a loose banjo bolt or bleeder valve somewhere, but everything was tight and there were no puddles on the shop floor. I then tried to bleed the brakes at the caliper. There was a few bubbles, but not very much on both sides.

Right now everything is put together and I have the brake lever pulled back about half way. I guess I'll see what it's like in the morning.

[willandrip]

You mean step 7 ?

Providing no air bubbles are being emitted from the bleed nipples you appear to have succeeded.

If the lever does not come back to the bar when full pressure is applied I think it is down to the pads requiring
bedding to the old discs.

An old trick is to zip tie the lever as far applied as possible overnight.
The theory is that any air bubbles ,even microscopic, are pressurised and combine into one larger bubble that rises in the system and vents to the master cylinder reservoir.

You can massively improve the bleeding result by slowly (so not frothing the fluid) squeezing the lever with the nipple
open and closing the nipple at each stroke when the lever is at the bar....rinse and repeat about 5/6 times.

Did you reface the pads if they were used or fit new.?
Pads need to be perfectly bedded to the disc to get the best effect.

I would carefully ride using the brakes lightly when possible to bed pads to the worn disc surfaces.
Usually a bit of use gets the brakes up to a much better level of performance after a while.
Can you see all four pistons moving when the brake is applied ?

Sometimes an air bubble gets trapped at the master banjo bolt...rotate the master cylinder on the bar (leave the cap on) so that it is able to move upwards and gently rap or tap the banjo with a metal object to dislodge any bubbles.


Brakes are a thing where experience is priceless.

Are you sure the lines are in very good order and not the original 15/20 year old ones expanding under pressure ?
New braided lines are the way forward.

BTW; The Haynes manual is absolutely useless for this model.... it tries to cover far too many different models and capacities in one manual and fails massively.
As you are in USA ,a Clymer FZR 600 1989 - 1993 should be readily available at a sensible price.
It has loads of general motorcycle maintenance procedures as well as specific 3HE information.
It makes the Haynes manual look like a MAD comic if you are old enough to remember them.

[FZR-kyle]

Did you reface the pads if they were used or fit new.?

The pads that came with the calipers were still pretty new so I re-used them.

Pads need to be perfectly bedded to the disc to get the best effect.

I would carefully ride using the brakes lightly when possible to bed pads to the worn disc surfaces.
Usually a bit of use gets the brakes up to a much better level of performance after a while.
Can you see all four pistons moving when the brake is applied ?

All the pistons were moving that I could see, the bike isn't road ready nor does it have tags yet, so I'll have to do that later.

Are you sure the lines are in very good order and not the original 15/20 year old ones expanding under pressure ?
New braided lines are the way forward.

The bike already has braided lines in the front. In the back, they look fairly new (they still have the white writing on them) but I'm not sure exactly how old they are.

BTW; The Haynes manual is absolutely useless for this model.... it tries to cover far too many different models and capacities in one manual and fails massively.
As you are in USA ,a Clymer FZR 600 1989 - 1993 should be readily available at a sensible price.
It has loads of general motorcycle maintenance procedures as well as specific 3HE information.
It makes the Haynes manual look like a MAD comic if you are old enough to remember them.

Evidently I have a Clymer manual, not a Haines. I probably wasn't looking in the right place.

Thanks willandrip for all your help

[willandrip]

Take the pads out...it is a very easy job with "dot/spot" calipers and rub them in a circular motion on a sheet
of abrasive paper ( something like 120/180 grit ) that is on a very level surface. Formica kitchen worktops are ideal ...don't let yer Ma catch you !

This re-faces the pads and gets rid of the ridges left from the discs they were previously fitted to, as well as
a lot of surface contamination.

Your front braided lines will be OK. They take a very long time to degrade.
The rear brake is very rarely used in anger today as improvements in suspension,tyre adhesion and front brake efficiency have taken a lot of "load" off the rear brake.

Upgrade the rear line as and when funds are available.(The rear will be the original :thus the age of the bike.)
Nobody but museum collectors replace lines using genuine Yamaha hoses...too expensive for the quality.
It is easy to feel for "bulging" by holding the line in the palm and operating the brake.

In the Clymer manual...
Brake bleeding is on page 341,342 and 343.

[FZR-kyle]

I saw on one of the other pages that people were soaking their chain over-night in kerosene to clean their drive chain. I know I need to take it off and inspect it after sitting for so long, but wouldn't the kerosene dry out the O-rings in the chain? If my chain is still in good shape what would you suggest I use to clean it?

[willandrip]

Kerosene....we know it as paraffin in the UK...is ideal.

It is classed as a light oil and is excellent as a solvent to remove caked on grit/grime and filth from not only chains
but many other components.

No self respecting motorcyclist should be without it in a cheap hand held trigger operated spray bottle.

Once cleaned and dried, it should have a suitable chain spray oil or wax applied.

Almost certainly you will have a riveted link chain fitted and if you want to remove it completely you will need quite a bit of unfamiliar kit to replace it.

Hopefully all O rings are still intact and grease is still sealed internally to lube the pins/rollers.

Again... on an bike with unknown history and service records that has stood unloved for a period; take it easy and build up speeds over a period.

You would never have 100% confidence in some other blokes chain and by fook they can do some damage with nearly 100 horsepower and 100mph speeds applied to them when they snap.

I don't throw chains away unnecessarily BUT I do thoroughly inspect them.......ALWAYS.

Have a good look at the gearbox sprocket/nut and lockwasher...it is one of the FZRs weakpoints.

[FZR-kyle]

Ok, but on the other page, CPR the FZR, I think it was, he put the chain in a kerosene bath to clean it over night. Should I do that? Or just scrub at it with a wire brush?

[willandrip]

A wire brush would only be used on very rusty sideplates.
The wire bristles would damage the O rings if used on the rollers.

If it is rusty enough to require a wire brush to clean it ; more than likely it is seized somewhere or the O rings will soon
pick up on the rust that is on the inner sideplate faces.
If it's in that condition....you cannot tell the condition of the pins inside the rollers.

It is these chains that snap at the most inconvenient moment.

Don't take all the info on this site as law......it is only a guide.
Pick out the bits that you have the gear for and utilise that method.

If you had the swinging arm out or had a spare rivet link,grinder.pin punches and a tool to rivet it with, you could remove the chain and immerse the whole chain for as long as you wanted.

If you have no tools then a diesel/paraffin soaked rag would have to do.

It is not a science.

You do not need to remove the chain if you have a rear paddock stand or similar.

Remove the wheel and run the chain by hand through a bath of whatever you are going to use.
Only use a plastic bristle brush or similar near the O rings.

Before you go wasting time on chains...you inspect the sprockets.
If the sprockets are worn...then the chain has the same wear but you cannot see it.

The only time this does not apply is if someone put a new chain on old sprockets.
This is why I said inspect the gearbox sprocket...a lot of folk cannot get it off and just chuck a new chain at it.

[TomcatMJ]

@FZR-kyle: Neither nor..best would be takin' an old Piece of textile (old t-shirt or old jeans which would usually land in the trash-bin), soak it with kerosine or diesel (same useable for cleaning chains without damaging the o-,x- or z-rings) and clean the chain with this..or take an old toothbrush or a similar hard plastic-brush for scrubbing,with a wirebrush you would probably damage the o-, x- or z-rings to easy accidentally.
Edit: Use Use fuel-ressistant gloves if you try it with diesel.otherwise your hands would keep smelling some days

If you put the chain in kerosine or diesel overnight you are risking that its crawling behind the rings and might kick out the lube out of the rolls partially,so that the lubrication between the rols and the inner pins might not be granted any more, and usually this would be a reason for chains breaking during you're driving, so it's not a good idea to risk this when there are better ways to clean the chain before spraying with chainlube.

The procedure with putting a chain overnight inside kerosine or diesel was the usual way before o-rings..in time of the original ds7 chains for example which afterwards where "boiled" in Chainlubricant in cans sitting directly on a camping-boiler...my dad did this in the 70s often with castrol-chainlubricant-cans far away enough from our home in the additional rented garage,otherwise my mum would have killed him for the extreme smell

Edit: Hm, just overlapped postings..but nevermind, the information inside ad up properly

[FZR-kyle]

If you put the chain in kerosine or diesel overnight you are risking that its crawling behind the rings and might kick out the lube out of the rolls partially,so that the lubrication between the rols and the inner pins might not be granted any more, and usually this would be a reason for chains breaking during you're driving, so it's not a good idea to risk this when there are better ways to clean the chain before spraying with chainlube.

Those were my thoughts exactly, I rigged up a way to hang the bike partially when I was dealing with the broken spark plug by hanging it from the rafters in my shed. I'll do the same thing but to the back so I can turn the wheel as I'm cleaning it.

[FZR-kyle]

I was trying to sync my carbs, and totally effed them up. The idle adjuster is as far out as it will go, and the throttle cables are both loose, but the bike is idling around 4-4.5 k RPM's. I guess I'm going to pull them back off and do another bench sync, while adjusting 3 and 4, the bolt fell out, I guess the center adjuster was too far in, so I had to back the outer one too far out to compensate. I keep just going around and around in circles.

EDIT: Did another bench sync, running MUCH better... on to finish syncing them...

[FZR-kyle]

Well, I finished syncing the carbs, bike is idling, running, and sounding like it should. I built a manometer out of plastic tubing with some fluid in it, using 6mm welding tips as a vacuum restrictor and connector to the bike. I still haven't been able to ride it yet, I still have to re-finish the brake pads and clean/lube the chain. Not to mention get insurance and register it .

[willandrip]

Good show .