Breaking up at WOT

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nitrobasher
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Breaking up at WOT

Post by nitrobasher »

Hey guys,

I just picked up an 89' FZR600, beautiful bike, with basically no problems. And I got it for a Steal!

the only problem I seem to be having is the bike Doesn't want to keep accelerating past 5k-6k rpms. It shudders almost like its hitting a rev limiter. I'm Pretty sure its a lean condition, I choked the bike a bit, and went out for another test ride and it took off like a damn rocket all the way to red line.

Just when I thought I had it fixed, I flipped a U and nailed it again, and once again right at 6k it starts to hesitate. The bike felt great when it finally went all the way up to 11k rpm. I actually didnt think this thing had it in it.

Anyone ever experience these symptoms? Know where I can find a Carb. "how to"? or can just point me in the directions of which needles to turn to richen this thing up please let me know.

One love guys,
-basher

I added some pic of the bike. has a few aftermarket pieces on there.
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yamaha_george
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Re: Breaking up at WOT

Post by yamaha_george »

N,
Please first off add your location to your profile as this site goes world wide with members.

Welcome to the site and it looks like you picked up a real bargain.
The fact you added choke to get it to go faster seems to point to alean condition, BUT before you start adding jets I suggest you clean out any old gas in the tank clean the filter and clean your carbs.

The bike may have been parked awile when it was for sale (forget what the PO told you )

I would change the plugs and ALL FLUIDS on the bike especially going into cold weather you have no idea as to what if any coolant mix is in the bike.
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shredex
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Re: Breaking up at WOT

Post by shredex »

i would clean the carbs then sync them and give it another shot.
also, check the airfilter
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Fartblood
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Re: Breaking up at WOT

Post by Fartblood »

check the airbox rubbers haven't perished and are sealing properly on the carb mouths. mine had exactly the same symptoms and took me a few days of head scratching to suss it.
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cad600
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Re: Breaking up at WOT

Post by cad600 »

Pulled directly from Factory Pro's web site:
Factory Pro wrote:Follow steps in order....First, dial in:

* 1. Top end (full throttle / 7.5k to redline -
Best Main Jet must be selected before starting step 2 (needle height)!
+ Select Best Main Jet
o To get the best, most even top end power (full throttle/after 7500 rpm), select the main jet that produces the hardest pull at high rpm.
+ If the bike pulls harder at high rpm when cold and less hard when fully warmed up, the main jet is too large. Install a smaller main jet and retest until you find the main jet that pulls the hardest at high rpm when fully warmed up. This must be done first - before moving on to the other tuning ranges.

+ If the bike doesn't pull well at high rpm when cold and gets only slightly better when fully warmed up, the main jet is too small.
# In order to properly tune the midrange and low rpm carburetion, THE MAIN JET MUST FIRST BE PROPERLY SELECTED after 10 to 15 minutes of hard use!

* Do not pay too much attention to the low-end richness when you are changing main jets - you still need to be using the main jets that produce the best power at high rpm. You will deal with the low-end / cruise later - after step 2.

* 2. Midrange (full throttle /5k-7k)

Step 1 (Best Main Jet) must be selected before starting step 2!
+ Select best needle clip position
o To get the best power at full throttle / 5k-7k rpm, adjust the needle height, after you have already selected the best main jet.
+ If the engine pulls better or is smoother at full throttle/5k-7k in a full throttle roll-on starting at <3k when cool but soft and/or rough when at full operating temperature, it is too rich in the midrange and the needle should be lowered.
+ If the engine pulls better when fully warmed up but still not great between 5k-7k, try raising the needle to richen 5k-7k.
+ If the engine pulls equally well between 5k-7k when cooler as compared to fully warmed up, the needle height is probably properly set.

# Do not pay too much attention to the low-end richness when you are changing needle clip positions - you still need to be using the clip position that produces the best full throttle / 5k-7k power in conjunction with the main jets (Step 1) that produce the best power at high rpm. You will deal with the low-end / cruise next.

* 3. Low end (full throttle / 2k-3k)

Step 1 (Best Main Jet) and Step 2 (needle height) must be selected before starting step 3!
+ Float height (AKA fuel level & how to..)
o To get best low-end power, set float height (fuel level) so that the engine will accept full throttle, without missing or stumbling, in 2nd gear from 2.5k to 3k rpm at minimum.
+ Float heights, unless otherwise specified in the installation guide, are measured from the "gasket surface" of the carb body to the highest part of the top of the float - with the float tang touching but not compressing the float valve spring.
+ If the engine has a "wet" rhythmic, soggy area at full throttle / 3k-4k rpm, that gets worse as the engine heats up, lower the fuel level by resetting the float height 1mm greater (if the original was 13mm - go to 14mm). This will lower the fuel level, making full throttle / 2k-3k rpm leaner.
+ If the engine is "dry" and flat between 2k to 3k rpm, raise the fuel level.
+ Example: change float height from 15mm to 14mm to richen up that area.

+ REMEMBER, since the main jet WILL affect low speed operation, the MAIN JET has to be within 1 or 2 sizes of correct before final float setting.
# Warning: If the engine is left with the fuel level too high,, the engine may foul plugs on the street and will be "soft" and boggy at part throttle operation. Adjust Floats to raise/ lower the Fuel Level.
* Base settings are usually given if a particular application has a history of fuel level criticalness. The Fuel level height in the float bowl affects full throttle/low rpm and, also, richness or leanness at cruise/low rpm.
# Reference: a bike that runs cleanly at small throttle openings when cold, but starts to show signs of richness as it heats up to full operating temperature, will usually be leaned out enough to be correct if the fuel level is LOWERED 1mm. Check out and RESET all: Suzuki (all), Yamaha (all) and Kawasaki (if low speed problems occur). Needless to say, FUEL LEVEL IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT!!!
+ If there are low-end richness problems, even after lowering the fuel level much more than 1.5mm from our initial settings, check for needle wear and needle jet (part of the emulsion tube). See Worn Needle and Worn Needle Jet diagram. It is VERY common for the brass needle jets (in the top of the "emulsion tube") in 36mm, 38mm and 40mm Mikuni CV carbs to wear out in as little as 5,000 miles. Check them for "oblong" wear - the needle jet orifice starts out round! Factory Pro produces stock replacement needle jets / emulsion tubes for 36mm and 38mm Mikuni carbs. Click here
* 4. Idle and low rpm cruise
+ Fuel Screw setting (AKA mixture screws)
# There is usually a machined brass or aluminum cap over the fuel screws on all but newer Honda. It's about the diameter of a pencil. Cap removal details. Newer Honda carbs have no caps, but use a special "D" shaped driver, usually supplied in the carb recal kit. We do have them available separately, too. 800 869-0497 to order -
+ Set for smoothest idle and 2nd gear, 4k rpm, steady state cruise operation. Set mixture screws at recommended settings, as a starting point. For smoothest idle, 2nd gear 4000 rpm steady state cruise , and 1/8 throttle high rpm operation. (pj tuning information)
+ Pilot fuel mixture screw settings, float level (but, you've "fixed" the fuel level in Step 3 - which you have already done!) AND pilot jet size are the primary sources of mixture delivery during 4000 rpm steady state cruise operation.
# If lean surging is encountered, richen mixture screws (turn out) in 1/2 turn increments. Alternative pilot jets are supplied when normally required.
# Pilot fuel mixture screw settings, float level and pilot jet size also affect high-rpm, 0 to 1/8 throttle maneuvers. Too lean, will cause surging problems when the engine is operated at high rpm at small throttle openings! Opening the mixture screws and/or increasing pilot jet size will usually cure the problem.
* NOTE: A rich problem gets worse as the engine heats up.
o If the throttle is lightly "blipped" at idle, and the rpm drops below the set idle speed, then rises up to the set idle speed, the low speed mixture screws are probably set too rich: try 1/2 turn in, to lean the idle mixture.
* NOTE: A lean problem gets better as the engine heats up.
o If the throttle is lightly "blipped" at idle, and the rpm "hangs up" before dropping to the set idle speed, and there are no intake leaks and the idle speed is set at less than 1000 rpm, the mixture screws are probably too lean: try 1/2 turn out, to richen mixture. Be sure there are no intake leaks and the idle speed is set at less than 1000 rpm!
Yes, that is a Single Sided Swingarm FZR600 that I built.

Something is lurking, waiting, wanting to be built......It calls to me from the darkness....

I can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel....Then I realize that it is the train coming to run my ass over....
nitrobasher
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Re: Breaking up at WOT

Post by nitrobasher »

So I started ripping into it last night, and as I was disconecting the petcock from the fuel lines, I noticed that the knob was sitting at about 10:00. I havent touched it since I got the bike, and I noticed that 12:00 and 6:00 seem to be wide open.

Im thinking this may have been restricting the fuel and leaning my bike out. Any imput?
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ragedigital
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Re: Breaking up at WOT

Post by ragedigital »

nitrobasher wrote:Im thinking this may have been restricting the fuel and leaning my bike out. Any imput?
Yes... try it.
Thanks for joining and participating in the most "active" FZR Community on the internet!
nitrobasher
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Re: Breaking up at WOT

Post by nitrobasher »

So I tore the carbs down, Let the parts soak in Seafoam and sprayed out all the holes with carb cleaner. Got it all back together, and she started but kind of rough. It took a good 40 cranks for her to putt to life. and it wont Idle for more then 45 seconds before slowly coming to a choking halt.

I feel like I either have a vacuum leak or maybe the air box inst seated properly. When at Idle if I crank the throttle Itll bogg real hard, also it gives sort of a growling noise, similar to the sound of a Suby WRX engine. If anyone can relate.
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shredex
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Re: Breaking up at WOT

Post by shredex »

how well did you clean it?
did you make sure none of the jets were clogged?

and after you mess with the carbs its always good to give it a good sync
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nitrobasher
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Re: Breaking up at WOT

Post by nitrobasher »

I havent synchd the carbs, however I hear that only really applies to idle problems. And while I am having idle issues I doubt it is due to unsynched carbs. I really only took out the jets and cleaned them and the bowls and made sure the floats and diaghrams were still in tact.

The bike ran flawlessly at idle, low/mid range. before I messed with em. I didnt turn any screws or anything to mess with the mixtures.
sweekster
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Re: Breaking up at WOT

Post by sweekster »

The fzr can be a very fickle bike. I would still resynch them. Not hard to do, gets you more familiar with that particular bike, and gives piece of mind.
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nitrobasher
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Re: Breaking up at WOT

Post by nitrobasher »

I really cant afford to spend another 120 bucks on a tool I may only use a 3 times.
yamaha_george
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Re: Breaking up at WOT

Post by yamaha_george »

nitrobasher wrote:I really cant afford to spend another 120 bucks on a tool I may only use a 3 times.
Nitro,
You really MUST learn to use THE WIKI and Search engines on this site. One of our members made 5 dollar syching tool that is MORE accurate than Guages & his HOW-TO is published in the HOW-TO section on both the Front page & the TECH_BOOK & URL page of the WIKI

I know THAT by testing his idea against my Guages as I was very curious from an engineers view.

I hope you took out the JETS ONE at a time. FZR 's have a habit of being jetted differently on the outside cylinders to the inside cylinders and the two jets in the bowl area are very easily swapped around on re-asembly if you take them all out at once.

Did you inspect the rubbers on the engine and the airbox for cracks Damage etc?

Most importantly are the carbs seated properly & cinched into place ?
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kilika2
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Re: Breaking up at WOT

Post by kilika2 »

+42596 on what george said about the tool being easy to make/use and highly accurate, takes a bit to get used to the fine tuning of the screws but my girlfriend even managed to sync 3 to 4. Sorry guys no pics. :nopic

Chris
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Before(5/5/09)_____________After(5/5/10)_____________Way After(8/1/10)


1995 FZR600 Sold :-(
2006 R1 Sold :-\
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sweekster
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Re: Breaking up at WOT

Post by sweekster »

nitrobasher wrote:I really cant afford to spend another 120 bucks on a tool I may only use a 3 times.
Does it look like I spent 120 bucks on this?
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Old pic but you can see it's quite effective
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Click here for more info
Duane...
Bike:
1994 Yamaha FZR 1000 EXUP
Factory Pro Stage 1 Jetting | K&N Filter | Corbin Seat | ProTek Keyless Gas Cap | GSXR Mirrors
My Thread
Cage:
2005 Saab 9-7x 5.3i Arc AWD

Image


THE WIKI IS YOUR FRIEND
THE SEARCH IS YOUR SIGNIFICANT OTHER
USE THEM!!
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