Shift Rod Stuck?? Any Ideas?

[rockthis]

Hey guys. I am now on my second transmission rebuild. This one being due to my friend riding beside me and i'm not really sure or how, but it had to be a bad shift. Anyways.. that brings us to my problem.

I previously changed out the drum and was able to get my second gear back fine (thats how i purchased the bike cheap.) This time i remove the clips holding the "shift rods" that the paws slide on. The rite side slides out like champ like it should. The left side can only go out maybe 1". I beelive its the paw closes to the right side of the engine.. (we are talking the shift rod with two paws of course.)

So again i can get this rod out and yank it about 1" out, but thats it. Then tap it back. You must remove these rods to get the paws away from the drum. I know the rods aren't this hard, but i'm almost to the point of welding a slide hammer onto the rod to yank it out. I've also thought bout dremel'ing the part of the paw that slides on the rod, but i fear shavings inside my engine.

I'm trying to get this bike running again without splitting the cases which i assume means take the engine entirely down, which i was trying to avoid. The first time it was as simple as swapping the drum out, this time i think the paw is bent on the rod or sumthing.

Oddly enough I can spin the rod (as long as i dont have it pulled out to the full 1" from the case) .. so it's not completely bound to the paw itself. But i also cant move the paw on the shift rod when it's inside. Which almost leads me to beleive the problem is truly in the transmission this time, and not simply the rods/paws.

Thoughts/Ideas?

[Luke-a-Tron]

I've not been into the transmission personally so this is just going of of what I've been able to see through clutch cover side and diagrams and such. Do you have the oil pan off? Can you tell where it's catching? Is it where it goes through the case or where it slides through the shift forks? Can the knuckle/cam be removed before you pull the rods out?

Also, what are the symptoms your bike is showing that's got you tearing into the transmission?

[rockthis]

As i stated before this isn't the first time i've done the tranny. So, yes the oil pan is off, you have to take it off in order to get to the shift paws which slide on the shift rods which is what i'm trying to get out. You are not able to remove the "knuckle/cam" (shift paw) until u slide the shift levers out. Once that's complete they will fall away from the drum and you can pull the drum out, and in turn get the paw's out.

I have tried prying every way while having a buddy try to turn and yank the shift rod pin out with no luck. It gets stuck after about 1" protruding from the case.

Sorry i forgot to tell you where its catching.. i "think" its on the shift paw (the part that slides over the shift rod lever thingy).. but it's hard to say. I can move it in and out about an inch, then its stuck.. so it's probably bent. These usually just slide right out. So i believe the paw is preventing me from getting the rod out, thats why i was debating even dremel'ing it to get the rod out.

[demon_knight69]

it sounds like something might be bent a little. as this isn't the first time you've taken it apart you know exactly how it should go. the rods should slide right out. i had a little trouble with one of mine, but a little jiggling and holding at weird angles got it out. if you're going to be replacing the rods and paws (aka. shift forks) anyways, you probably don't have to worry too much about damaging them. just be careful not to get a lot of metal shavings in your engine case

on another note, splitting the case is pretty much complete teardown of the engine. i don't recommend it if you can avoid it. thats where i am with my transmission. i have at least two gears that have broken teeth, so my plan is to replace the whole trans and check everything while i'm in there. as i'm in arizona, its too f'ing hot to work on it, so my engine is about 2/3 torn down. i still have to split the case and then get the trans out.

anyway, check the wiki if you haven't already, there's a really good write up on replacing the rods and forks. i will hopefully be able to update that wiki with actual transmission replacement, once i get to work on the damn thing.

[rockthis]

I'm in the same boat as you. Like i said trying to avoid complete tear down. And yes i'm not worried about damage i have new shift rods, paws, and entire transmission (which i didn't use previously). I might be able to sell to you once i confirm its not my tranny itself. I have two spares now ;p

Yea, VERY VERY familiar with the wiki. Heck the haynes manual kind of leaves u hanging, if it wasn't for the wiki i would have been lost the first few times i rebuilt her.

I'll keep working on it, but its not looking good so far.

[demon_knight69]

yeah the wiki helped me for the first part, once you get into the rest of it, its a PITA. if yamaha wasn't so stupid with the design they could have gotten away with NOT having to rip the engine apart to get the transmission apart. there are TWO bolts inside the engine you have to remove to split the case...thing is, you have to rip the head off to get to them. TWO 'fing bolts! i'm still pissed about that. it would be one thing if it were 4 or 6 bolts under there, but 2? come on! its like a slap in the face or

anyways, enough ranting. i won't need a transmission, i bought one like two months ago, its just hard trying to find time and energy to work in 105 degree temps, ya know? thanks for the offer though. good luck with the rest of your transmission fun

[95FZR600]

Sounds like you just need sky hook to get that out?

[Luke-a-Tron]

"Did you jiggle the handle? Get back there and jiggle it!" -Ren Hoek

You never explained the symptoms that lead you to tearing the thing appart. I'm wondering if it's even worth with fighting with or if you should just go ahead and split the case.

[rockthis]

Well i let a friend ride, and i'm not really sure how, but i beleive he downshifted at high rev's.. it was then "stuck" in gear.. we beleive 3rd gear (once i tore down i could see as suspected the drum was in 3rd). At first i assumed, "oh no biggie, the shift retent arm thingy just popped off the drum.. cuz that can happen if you improper install, plus mine was a lil worn out. Once we got to teardown we realised this wasn't the case.. I then proceeded to try to get the drum to move into any other gears.. i was able to go up from what we think was 3rd to a few others, but it didnt feel like it was locking into gear. So the next steap would be check the paws that move the dogs. I notice one is slightly cocked.. and i cant move it with screwdriver, so i assume this might be my problem. I goto remove the shift rods, and the one where this slightly bent paw is at wont pull out.

Right now i'm on the search for other motors. I mean at the cost of a full gasket set and other things I would do during a tear down, i could easily pop in a "runner" for now and get to work on a 660 with this broken tranny motor.

[95FZR600]

Well i let a friend ride, and i'm not really sure how, but i beleive he downshifted at high rev's.. it was then "stuck" in gear.. we beleive 3rd gear (once i tore down i could see as suspected the drum was in 3rd). At first i assumed, "oh no biggie, the shift retent arm thingy just popped off the drum.. cuz that can happen if you improper install, plus mine was a lil worn out. Once we got to teardown we realised this wasn't the case.. I then proceeded to try to get the drum to move into any other gears.. i was able to go up from what we think was 3rd to a few others, but it didnt feel like it was locking into gear. So the next steap would be check the paws that move the dogs. I notice one is slightly cocked.. and i cant move it with screwdriver, so i assume this might be my problem. I goto remove the shift rods, and the one where this slightly bent paw is at wont pull out.

Right now i'm on the search for other motors. I mean at the cost of a full gasket set and other things I would do during a tear down, i could easily pop in a "runner" for now and get to work on a 660 with this broken tranny motor.

try gdlcycles.com Thats where I got my motor for my intruder. I give them an A+ for feedback.

[Luke-a-Tron]

I'd probably go ahead and just cut the fork at this point. I suspect there's probably a deeper problem. If the fork is bent, you'll need to replace it either way.

I'd get shop vac as far up in there as you can while you cut it.

[rockthis]

I agree with the deeper problem. I was able to move some projects around, got under her last nite. Tried to jiggle the drum to where it allowed the paw to move, and pry'd and tapped the paw (bent or not it should slide, ive got the shift rod pushed back in (so the paw isnt at the "binding" spot)). Either way, it feels like its up in the gear area because i cannot disengage the gears in the actual tranny. Which brings us back around, to splitting the cases.

And as much as I want it fixed, I can't push myself to dremel and or weld in there. Internals are usually smooth and pressed, etc. No need to be bringing chances of debris, heat fracture, stress, etc. Just do it right, and take the assembly out from the top (not to mention i have a transmission ready to swap in).

So, either way the motor is getting pulled and on the bench. I may replace it with a runner if i find a good deal (Anyone???) Would at least get me running and taking time on the rebuild.

[yamaha_george]

yank the shift rod pin out with no luck. It gets stuck after about 1" protruding from the case.

Sorry i forgot to tell you where its catching.. i "think" its on the shift paw (the part that slides over the shift rod lever thingy).. but it's hard to say. I can move it in and out about an inch, then its stuck.. so it's probably bent. These usually just slide right out. So i believe the paw is preventing me from getting the rod out, thats why i was debating even dremel'ing it to get the rod out.

Hi,
the rod you are trying to pull out is bent . It will rotate when fully home but not when it gets 1" out .

The only way you can get the turkey out is to cut it out as it will not allow you the clearance between pawl & drum.
If you are worried about the cutting debris it is steel so a big strong magnet (old speaker magnet ) will catch most and a wash down & probe with the magnet on aflat blade screwdriver will remove it all like a brush :-}

Your dremmel will take forever use a new ange grinder disc and several old ones in small diameters vome in real handy and aquick troll round the local metal work factory will usually harvest half a dozen discs of the right size for free.

[rockthis]

, good speaker magnet and probably air cut off will do the trick. I guess the only thing holding my back is the question of: (first, we know the rod is bent for sure i cant get it out) but whats keeping the paw (closer to case) to not be able to move? I realise when the pins are in the drum it basicly locks in in, however i can move the drum thru the gears and can never move the paw itself. Thats leads me to think it feels like the primary transmission gears and not simply this bent shift rod.

I am compelled with you advice to at least try the cut out method (even tho the pin is hardened steel too) However i do have spares, and it does have to come out someway. Plus it should be appearent after removal if its the actual tranny or not.

[Luke-a-Tron]

I'm guessing the fork (paw) is bent because the gear doesn't want to slide but the selector is trying to jam force it either in or out of gear (the opposite of where it's stuck). Somethings got to give and it sounds like it was a combination of the fork and the rod. Doesn't sound promising.