The FZ-R1 project Update:10/8/14

[reelrazor]

Hey, Match?

What's the output pressure on the internal fuel pumps? Usually they are mounted like that so that they run cooler at the high feed presssures that the FI demands, and include a return line to 'spend' any waste pressure back to the tank.

[shredex]

but does the r1 fuel pump have the same psi as the FZR???
if not then that would just ruin the idea

[match417]

carb'd bike fuel systems aren't pressurized, FI systems usually have fuel pressure around 40 psi, but that's car systems, carb'd bikes don't require a pressurized fuel system because the carbs will get overfilled and the floats won't work, so the pressure is waaaaay less, the carbs suck in about drop a second at 1k idle. and i forgot all about the return line, so I guess that eliminates the idea of using a tank from an FI bike on a carb'd bike. And that makes sense mounting it in the tank instead of outside the tank. But having an external fuel pump as opposed to an internal isn't necessarily a bad thing. The fuel can't be too cold, otherwise it doesn't vaporize well, and it can't be too hot, or you get vapor lock. There is a happy medium that it should be at so it vaporizes easily after the injectors, but not too hot so that it vaporizes before the injectors(which is really hot by the way)..The cold fuel is the reason your car revs to about 1500 rpm when you crank it, the ecu is programmed to allow more fuel in the first 2 - 3 seconds of the car running because cold fuel produces less power, and more cold fuel produces the necessary amount of power to keep the car running until the car is warm enough to warm the fuel before the injectors...anyway, what i'm getting to is..carb'd bikes need the fuel pump mounted outside so the fuel pump and lines stay warm and cozy, fuel is bad warm when it gets near 400 degrees F, so don't worry about the pump being external..but we're kindof getting off topic...sorry 'bout that. thanks for asking me that and making me think reelrazor, i probably would have bought a tank from an FI bike and been like "crap"! if i hadn't thought about it all first.

[match417]

plus, carb'd fuel pumps can sense when the carbs are too full of gas and stops sending fuel until it feels it needs to again. This is why your bike clicks when you turn the key before you start it. Fuel pump is priming (clicking), then it stops clicking when there's too much pressure from the carbs, and starts clicking again when it needs to.

[shredex]

so its bad to get a tank from a fuel injected bike?
you mean a internal pump wont work???

I can always weld a plate over a "gapping hole" and drill out what is needed to fit the stock fzr petcock on there..

[match417]

so its bad to get a tank from a fuel injected bike?
you mean a internal pump wont work???

I can always weld a plate over a "gapping hole" and drill out what is needed to fit the stock fzr petcock on there..

yeah, you could weld it, just make sure there are vent hoses on the tank and they aren't somehow built into that huge fuel pump assembly, look at the tanks on ebay to see the fuel pump i'm talking about. I doubt the vent hoses are in the fuel pump assembly, but it is a big assembly. just get a 98 - 01 tank, the look pretty sweet, look at them on ebay.

[shredex]

so can you put in simple terms why I can use a integrated fuel pump?

those tanks are expensive as hizzle

[slayermd]

Cool. Your like a test dummy for me. I want to put 04-06 R1 race fairings on my FZR, but was a little hesitate on the fit. But so far everyhting looks great (except for the stator cover thing).

Keep on keeping on!

[match417]

so can you put in simple terms why I can use a integrated fuel pump?

those tanks are expensive as hizzle

do you mean "can't use an integrated fuel pump"?

reasons we can't

injected bikes usually have integrated fuel pumps, at least yamaha's do
carb'd bikes have one fuel line(send), injected bikes have two (send/return)
carb'd bikes use up all the fuel given to the engine, injected bikes circulate excess fuel back to the tank
carb'd bikes don't have fuel pressure, injected bikes do

even if you could rig the injected fuel pump to work on a carbureted bike, it would still flood out the carbs because it just flows and doesn't know when to stop. our pumps know when there is too much fuel in the carbs because it builds up a certain amount of pressure, so it stops sending fuel until it senses less pressure (meaning fuel has been used)

it's not that you can't use an integrated fuel pump, you just can't use a fuel pump designed for an injected bike. if you find a integrated fuel pump on a carb'd bike then you can use it, but you can't use an external fuel pump from a injected bike. there is a difference in the pumps and in the system. a fuel injection system has a fuel rail where fuel goes in, and then the fuel comes out the other side and back to the tank, so it circulates a crazy amount of fuel through the system and the injectors only pull what's needed. Carb'd bikes only have a sending fuel line, no return, so the pump supplies only what the carbs need and no more, or else it will flood out the carbs.

[shredex]

Cool. Your like a test dummy for me. I want to put 04-06 R1 race fairings on my FZR, but was a little hesitate on the fit. But so far everyhting looks great (except for the stator cover thing).

Keep on keeping on!

The stator cover problem really isnt much of a problem anymore.
it doesnt look bad at all with the fairing cut out around it.
I just had to layer the back part with fiberglass to make it stronger, but its coming out great.
if I had a welder and some spare steel laying around, I would be welding on the brackets to my bike to hole the fairings in place.
Besides that, the only real modding is chopping off the bottom half of the stay.
the sides meet up nicely on the bike, and the intake boots even mate real well! and they mate right up with the ram air ports!

[shredex]

so can you put in simple terms why I can use a integrated fuel pump?

those tanks are expensive as hizzle

do you mean "can't use an integrated fuel pump"?

reasons we can't

injected bikes usually have integrated fuel pumps, at least yamaha's do
carb'd bikes have one fuel line(send), injected bikes have two (send/return)
carb'd bikes use up all the fuel given to the engine, injected bikes circulate excess fuel back to the tank
carb'd bikes don't have fuel pressure, injected bikes do

even if you could rig the injected fuel pump to work on a carbureted bike, it would still flood out the carbs because it just flows and doesn't know when to stop. our pumps know when there is too much fuel in the carbs because it builds up a certain amount of pressure, so it stops sending fuel until it senses less pressure (meaning fuel has been used)

it's not that you can't use an integrated fuel pump, you just can't use a fuel pump designed for an injected bike. if you find a integrated fuel pump on a carb'd bike then you can use it, but you can't use an external fuel pump from a injected bike. there is a difference in the pumps and in the system. a fuel injection system has a fuel rail where fuel goes in, and then the fuel comes out the other side and back to the tank, so it circulates a crazy amount of fuel through the system and the injectors only pull what's needed. Carb'd bikes only have a sending fuel line, no return, so the pump supplies only what the carbs need and no more, or else it will flood out the carbs.

I see

[reelrazor]

Yeah. A carbed bike's fuel pump is usually regulated to less than 5psi so it doesn't overwhelm the float needles.

I know on the Harleys the fuel pump is capable of making 90psi and is regulated on the downstream side of the fuel rail down to 45psi or less.

If you put 45 psi to a set of FZR carbs you'd likely wet flood it in 10 seconds or so.

[match417]

dude, i was just looking your signature pic, and checked it out more on your myspace..you tire looks way to close to the bottom of that fairing. you definitely don't want the fairings to shift and the tire touch them at 55 mph.

[shredex]

dude, i was just looking your signature pic, and checked it out more on your myspace..you tire looks way to close to the bottom of that fairing. you definitely don't want the fairings to shift and the tire touch them at 55 mph.

I know, once I raise the front back up about 1 inch, it wont be as close, and the plastics wernt in the exact spot there going to be in, which is why im waiting to cut do the stator cut.
I havent driven my bike with the plastics on because the front fairing and two zip ties was all that was holding it up in those pics.
I have to weld some mounts to my frame.
and after I screw up my beautifuly powdercoated frame, then I gots a suprise of what im going to be doing with it

all and all, it will hopefully come out awesome.
right now, the bike is in several pieces (taken advantage of the break )

[shredex]

take a look how close it is on the real r1