FZR400 Frame / R6 subframe?

[Freestyle72]

Hey FZR mike. In response to your PM I will just post here because everyone else will benefit too.

The R6 subframe is almost small enough to fit in between the tabs on the frame set by yamaha. But I did as warm up those tabs with a torch and I moved them about by abou 3mm each if I am remember correctly. Now my R6 subframe slides right in as though it were stock. And then I had 2 tabs welded to the shock mount to be the lower mounting points for the subframe. Bear in mind that doing it on the 400 is totally different than doing it on the 600.

Also thinking about how you are going to line your tank up. I did mine the way I did it because It gives the most stock like behaviour in terms of bolting and un bolting parts. It also lets me remove the subframe independent of the shockmount, unlike the stock 400 set up. But something else to think about is which gas tank you will use. For example my seat doesn't line up 100% with the line on the yzf600 gas tank but to me it looks ok and I can always make a cowl for it later. I also had to trim my seat down about. I am thinking about going to an 06 07 R6 fuel tank for when I fuel inject my bike and will have to reassess my tank to seat alignment and such.

Just food for thought.

[Fzrmike33]

Thanks for the input, im going to use a 200 yzf 600r tank, and stock R6 seat, or i might go with race tail that takes foam pad, not sure yet. I was thinking of putting new tabs on the 400 frame to match the R6 tabs, but i guess i could heat up the R6 tabs.

What do you mean your seat doesnt line up all the way ? are you talking the curve ?. Im not sure how im going to mount the tank in the rear of the tank. Hmmmmmm.

Update: I took the main frame and subframe to a local fab and welder guy, he is going to reverse the main frame mounts, or heat them up and straighten them so they meet the R6 subframe mounts. Depending on his quality of work, im going to have him make a alumunuim shock mount, i dont want to use the stock steel mount, see what happens.

[Freestyle72]

Hey that's exactly what I did (what you are having your welder do). I heated the FZR400 tabs so they could take the R6 piece. It's really easy to do. Don't know if I would want to pay a welder $75+ an hour to do something that easy.

As far as making a new aluminum shockmount. It has been done before (once that I know of), but I believe that part needs to be engineered. You can't just make it have the same dimensions as the stock steel piece since aluminum has roughly 1/3 the strength of steel. Even bigger problem is it waaaaaaaaaaaaay worse fatigue tolerance. I think I weighed the stock shock mount in at about 2.2lbs or something. Do you really think you can create an aluminum equivalent that is worth the extra cost and engineering? Especially when the aluminum piece will probably come in at 1lb or something. Most of the weight of the subframe comes from the stock steel piece. I think I managed to lop off about 12lbs just by getting rid of that crap and replacing with the 4lb r6 piece.

[Fzrmike33]

Yeah i had the welder cut the weld and push the 400 frame tab over to fit the R6, and then re weld it back, i paid $50, not bad since i dont have a welder, or torch, he did a fantastic weld job. The shock mount he told me to use the stock one, not worth the money to save 1lbs. So he is breaking the spot welds, then were going to remount it and make some brackets to mount the bottom tabs of the R6 frame to, basically just like you did .


Freestyle, did you make a rear tank mount ? any pics ? did you have to bend the edges around the Yzf tank where it meets the frame ?. I need to get a R6 seat to do some fitting, i dont have my tank fully mounted yet, think i should get the seat and see how it goes onto the subframe and go from there.

[Fzrmike33]

Got my R6 subframe on, i got my R6 seat today, the seat seems to be about a 1" 1/2 short of hitting the gas tank, how far do i have to push back the gas tank ? its already just slightly over the battery holder in the subframe. I dont see how this R6 seat is going to work, your right it dont match the yzf 600r tank, its close.


I would love to see a close up of somebody who has the R6 seat and subframe on a 400fzr and see how they got the seat to meet the tank, and how far back there tank is pushed.

I may need to go with this tail fairing and trim the fiberglass to fit my tank, but it still may come up short of reaching the tank, but it could be trimmed to fit nice and put a foam pad on it ?

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... s%3Disch:1

[Freestyle72]

Seeing as I am the only other person with the 06 R6 subframe I'll post up some pictures for your later. But you should post up pics of your set up so I can understand if there is anything you do to fix it, or if you need to go back to your welder. I did all my set up and fitting before I went to the welder. So of course I had no gap.

[Fzrmike33]

Ok thanks, looks to me like the gas tank would have to be slid way back to meet the R6 seat, or the R6 subframe slid toward the tank to get rid of the 1" 1/2 gap

Ok put up some close ups of where the R6 subframe mounts to your Fzr frame brackets, and where your tank mounts in the front and rear.

I was looking at your project pics, my yzf tank is in the same spot as yours. So with that said it leaves me to narrow the possiabilitys down, 1. you didnt mount your R6 seat to the place its suppose to mount on the subframe, 2. Your subframe is slid foward with new holes made in it, 3. Im completely a nut case

[Fzrmike33]

[thatkid]

You can't just make it have the same dimensions as the stock steel piece since aluminum has roughly 1/3 the strength of steel. Even bigger problem is it waaaaaaaaaaaaay worse fatigue tolerance.

That statement is just not true. If it were, all our airplanes and spaceships, etc would be made from steel. There is a reason they call it aircraft grade aluminum. Especially when we are comparing the OEM mild steel. It's not a very stout steel to begin with. An aluminum mount could easily be done out of 6061 aluminum or 7020. Now, is it worth the cost to weight savings? Most likely not. 6061 can be had for relatively cheap but the machining and welding of it will be about 2 hours and at the average shop rate of 75+/hr it becomes about ~$200 to save a pound. Pretty steep.

[Fzrmike33]

Some of my shock mount 6061 parts 3/8 " mounting plates , 1" 5/8 pipe with 5/16 " walls.

[Freestyle72]

You can't just make it have the same dimensions as the stock steel piece since aluminum has roughly 1/3 the strength of steel. Even bigger problem is it waaaaaaaaaaaaay worse fatigue tolerance.

That statement is just not true. If it were, all our airplanes and spaceships, etc would be made from steel. There is a reason they call it aircraft grade aluminum. Especially when we are comparing the OEM mild steel. It's not a very stout steel to begin with. An aluminum mount could easily be done out of 6061 aluminum or 7020. Now, is it worth the cost to weight savings? Most likely not. 6061 can be had for relatively cheap but the machining and welding of it will be about 2 hours and at the average shop rate of 75+/hr it becomes about ~$200 to save a pound. Pretty steep.

What is just not true about it? Aluminum is in fact 1/3 the strength of steel. And it's also a fact that it has a poor fatigue life compared to steel mild, or otherwise. I understand what you are saying about the difference grades of steel but the part also should need to be engineered and possibly have an FEA run on it. It could very well end up being the same strength which is fine, but at the most he is going to save about a pound which isn't really worth the money as you mentioned.

[Freestyle72]

Oh and at Mike. My tank is way further back than yours. And I think my tail angle is slightly steeper as well.

[thatkid]

mild steel has a yield strength of 55k and 6061 has a yield strength of 48k. That is not 1/3 the strength. Now steel does have a better wearing properties but you can't state it's a fact that aluminum has poor fatigue life. It has less, but by no means is it poor. If it was so poor we wouldn't have aluminum moto frames at all or aluminum frames lasting decades. The same logic was used for carbon fiber, claiming it wouldn't take the abuse and now carbon frames are popping up. Carbon bicycle frames are taking off and freeride bikes have been made with aluminum since the beginning. Aluminum wheels on cars and bikes are abundant. At no point would any of these things be considered poor. F1 cars have multiple aluminum parts on them. Aluminum is a fine choice so long as the proper grade is chosen.

[Fzrmike33]

Your tank is wayyy back more ? . I put the stock tank on to see how far it went back, and the stock tank is going much further back, but my subframe angle is close. Now when i try to push the yzf tank back to hit the R6 seat, the tank is no longer fitting the shape of the frame, and there a huge gap in the front area where the tripple tree is. The stock tank cover is about 1" 1/2 longer than the yzf tank, there is my seat gap.

Did u grind the tank down?, when i push it that far back the tank dont fit the frame shape that good. The shape of the tank dont fit the curve of the main frame when you push it back that far, what did u do ? i mean its way off. Does your yzf tank follow the contour of the 400 frame ?


Aluminum is not 1/3 as strong as steel, 6061 is about 45 % strong as steel, maybe i failed to also mention that im having my shock mount heat treated and aged, which will return it to T6.

Im hoping to put this tail on my bike if i can get the yzf tank to fit right, its a 06-07 sharkskinz or hotbodies race tail, then make a tailight for it. Im hoping to reshape that fiberglass where it hits the gas tank, and make it fit the yzf tank.

[yamaha_george]

Gentlemen ,
this steel V alloy is talking at cross purposes.
Anything steel can be replicated in alloy BUT it requires a whole lot more engineering know how to factor in the stresses and strains the part takes,then to organise a design capable of standing those stresses & strains safely.

Few here have either the knowledge,software or the equipment to do this for our steeds unless they know someone in F1, avionic parts OR has super deep pockets to pay for the part.

Do not get me wrong I am a firm believer in "anything is possible" I just lived thro 64 years of mankind's history & that has proved a lot of science fiction can be made science fact just by trying.