FZRSupport: the FZROnline Archive

This started off as a thread about me putting ethanol in my bike and watching the effects on lambda. It has since turned into a discussion of the pro's and cons of ethanol, a topic which has been exhausted extensively over the internet.

Since the thread has nothing to do with the original posts, I have removed the material relevant to the original topic.

Yeah? screw that crap.

Hmm, less BTUs (less power)....means less efficiency....and it WILL screw with intake systems rubber (carb o-rings for example)..

I would AVOID that stuff at any cost.


Not to mention subsidizing that crap is just bad public policy in general.

(If you farm corn, you prolly disagree)

reelrazor wrote:Not to mention subsidizing that crap is just bad public policy in general.

(If you farm corn, you prolly disagree)

RR
Corn farmers do not care who they sell to, the problem is that corn used as fuel additive is corn that cannot be eaten and I for one would prefer that people eat well rather than travel badly

yamaha_george wrote: RR
Corn farmers do not care who they sell to, the problem is that corn used as fuel additive is corn that cannot be eaten and I for one would prefer that people eat well rather than travel badly

Right..until you get to the subsidies, and the selling of a specific field's future...cause when it is slated toward ethanol production, well then, now the production subsidies kick in.

The bushel price goes up, food prices go up..a higher percentage makes fuel not food...

reelrazor wrote:

yamaha_george wrote: RR
Corn farmers do not care who they sell to, the problem is that corn used as fuel additive is corn that cannot be eaten and I for one would prefer that people eat well rather than travel badly

Right..until you get to the subsidies, and the selling of a specific field's future...cause when it is slated toward ethanol production, well then, now the production subsidies kick in.

The bushel price goes up, food prices go up..a higher percentage makes fuel not food...

RR,
so the govt adds a bias to corn for fuel by subsidy? that is madness ! subsidize a high yeald for corn per given area as an incentive for better farming methods by all means but to give it only for fuel additive corn is just wrong.

yamaha_george wrote:RR,
so the govt adds a bias to corn for fuel by subsidy?

Not directly...BUT, they DO subsidize production and supply of ethanol...to the tune of 51 cents per gallon at the producer(distillers/refiners) level, 40 cents per gallon at the supplier (fuel station companies)level..

So, the producers buy the corn futures either on commodities markets, or directly at the county/regional grange.

'Food' grade corn and 'grain' grade corn are NOT the same crop....

Net result...higher prices as less acreage is allotted to 'food' corn, more is planted as grain...and well, the result of the subsidies is higher food costs.

that is madness ! subsidize a high yeald for corn per given area as an incentive for better farming methods by all means but to give it only for fuel additive corn is just wrong.

It IS madness. The whole farm subsidy system in the U.S is madness. IT was originally begun to help the small guy, but has increasingly meant the even 'family' farms are basically franchisees of ADM, and other mega-agro concerns.

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I love posts like this one. Graphs make me happy.

in IL all gas is 10% E. never had an issue.


I think its stupid to use corn for it. sugar cane is way better.

I believe that is UP TO 10% ethanol. I've tested various fuels from different gas stations and found that the ethanol content varies from 5% to 9%.

haunter wrote:in IL all gas is 10% E. never had an issue.

I think its stupid to use corn for it. sugar cane is way better.

Corn was the proof-of-concept beta that was sold mainstream (sigh). New tech coming through that uses the corn husks, stalks and cobs for the alcohol, leaving the corn for food.

haunter wrote:in IL all gas is 10% E. never had an issue.


I think its stupid to use corn for it. sugar cane is way better.

Yeah, well, sugar cane requires tropical weather...not much tropical land in the U.S......Puerto Rico, south south Florida...deeep south Texas.

Not as much political support to be bought there as in the corn-belt.

And, any fuel station can add up to 10% ethanol without posting any notice of ethanol content....old holdover rule when it was used strictly as a de-watering agent.

Tier 1 fuel suppliers-Shell, Mobil, and a couple others will post exact percentages-if ANY is added.

reelrazor wrote:

haunter wrote:in IL all gas is 10% E. never had an issue.


I think its stupid to use corn for it. sugar cane is way better.

Yeah, well, sugar cane requires tropical weather...not much tropical land in the U.S......Puerto Rico, south south Florida...deeep south Texas.

Not as much political support to be bought there as in the corn-belt.

And, any fuel station can add up to 10% ethanol without posting any notice of ethanol content....old holdover rule when it was used strictly as a de-watering agent.

Tier 1 fuel suppliers-Shell, Mobil, and a couple others will post exact percentages-if ANY is added.

they can grow it all ove rthe south I am told

haunter wrote: they can grow it all ove rthe south I am told

nah, unless you consider 'all over the south' as: Florida, Lousiana, south Texas, and Hawaii.....ohh, and Puerto Rico.



http://www.agmrc.org/commodities__produ ... rofile.cfm

http://www.usda.gov/oce/reports/energy/ ... eport3.pdf