Synch Tool by Fizzer6hundred

[DonTZ125]

The 2 bottle method is crude and not very exact, but IMO it beats paying a shop to do it with the right tool.

Actually, I'll disagree with you there - you're talking mm of water column in differential pressure - that's LOW. The normal spec is measured in kPa, with the allowable difference between carbs (for the 400) being 1.33 kPa, or 135 mm w.c. The two bottle manometer allows you to quickly and accurately set the carb differential to within 2-3 mm w.c. That's VERY exact, accurate, and repeatable.

That's the very reason why - as YG commented - gauge manos ave HUGE errors compared to dP manos, even a very simple rig like the 2 bottle.

[kiki231]

That's the very reason why - as YG commented - gauge manos ave HUGE errors compared to dP manos, even a very simple rig like the 2 bottle.

And you can always test your accuracy by flipping the tubes and ensuring you are still balanced

[yamaha_george]

I like using Sobe bottles for my 2 bottle tool. I usually fill one bottle about 3/4 full with brake fluid (its what I have the most of on hand), then split it into both bottles. Ive used the hell out of it and never had a problem will potential fluid in the engine danger, even at higher RPMs with WAY out of synch carbs. The 2 bottle method is crude and not very exact, but IMO it beats paying a shop to do it with the right tool. I wouldnt mind having a nice synch tool of my own on hand, but for the street riding I do, the 2 bottle setup works great. I like bang for your buck, and this tool usually just costs me the price of 2 sobe bottles .

The 4 tube manifold setup looks like it would be a bit more precise, but it looks like it would have significant more danger of sucking fluid into the engine.

MrFreeze,
bit worried by you using brake fluid for this as burnt brake fluid if my 0memory serves me at all is extremely Toxic
as a gas so please take care.

Brake fluid & Brake cleaner were frequently used by welders as metal cleaners/prep (removing paint ) and a number of guys I actually know have had some serious incidents with the stuff, ie passing out OR serious coughing fits(in one case it brought on a heart attack)

[yamaha_george]

Well I have just finished the 2 bottle version write up by Shredex & with CAD600's photo's included for clarity and put it along side the other 4 stick version in the WIKI

[mrfreeze5]

The 2 bottle method is crude and not very exact, but IMO it beats paying a shop to do it with the right tool.

Actually, I'll disagree with you there - you're talking mm of water column in differential pressure - that's LOW. The normal spec is measured in kPa, with the allowable difference between carbs (for the 400) being 1.33 kPa, or 135 mm w.c. The two bottle manometer allows you to quickly and accurately set the carb differential to within 2-3 mm w.c. That's VERY exact, accurate, and repeatable.

That's the very reason why - as YG commented - gauge manos ave HUGE errors compared to dP manos, even a very simple rig like the 2 bottle.

Learn something new every day I didnt realize the 2 bottle method was actually MORE accurate. Guess Ill keep doing it then.

I like using Sobe bottles for my 2 bottle tool. I usually fill one bottle about 3/4 full with brake fluid (its what I have the most of on hand), then split it into both bottles. Ive used the hell out of it and never had a problem will potential fluid in the engine danger, even at higher RPMs with WAY out of synch carbs. The 2 bottle method is crude and not very exact, but IMO it beats paying a shop to do it with the right tool. I wouldnt mind having a nice synch tool of my own on hand, but for the street riding I do, the 2 bottle setup works great. I like bang for your buck, and this tool usually just costs me the price of 2 sobe bottles .

The 4 tube manifold setup looks like it would be a bit more precise, but it looks like it would have significant more danger of sucking fluid into the engine.

MrFreeze,
bit worried by you using brake fluid for this as burnt brake fluid if my 0memory serves me at all is extremely Toxic
as a gas so please take care.

Brake fluid & Brake cleaner were frequently used by welders as metal cleaners/prep (removing paint ) and a number of guys I actually know have had some serious incidents with the stuff, ie passing out OR serious coughing fits(in one case it brought on a heart attack)

Oh yeah, phosgene gas is nasty stuff and can cause immediate lung scarring among other problems. But thats from welding aerosol brake cleaner. Im not too concerned about burning brake fluid. But again, it all goes back to the fact that we dont want fluid in the engine at all, so precautions are priority.

Dot 3 brake fluid does burn, but not very well, and I cant imagine even if it did go in the engine that it would be too harmful if it occurs outside unless your standing right over the exhaust.

[thatkid]

I've never used the 2 bottle method, nor the synch tool in question.

Does the liquid in the tubes "fluctuate wildly"? can easily be sucked into the engine? are any dampers used?

Bare in mind there's plenty of fluid (3oz) that can be sucked in to 1 cylinder (tool in question). 1200 rpm = 5 induction strokes per second. 150 cc * 5 = 750cc (the butterflies are almost closed on idle) Wouldn't the spark plug get fouled, therefore the oil won't burn on that cylinder, the other 3 will happily fire away. You gota be lightening fast to switch the engine off in "1 stroke". Drop screw driver, move hands to the KILL switch trying not to panic, nor fall over. 1/5 of a second? nope.

Don't get me wrong, I think this manometer could be a great inexpensive time saving device, but even if the oil gets sucked in and don't damage the engine. It's burn the oil off maybe clean the plug/s, refill with oil and start again and so on.

Maybe a solution, The Morgan Carbtune has dampers fitted, 10 cm engine side of the tubes, then the dampers. Those dampers restrict the airflow, so the aluminium needles don't fluctuate wildly. Those dampers are only pieces of plastic with a hole through the centre around 1mm in diameter.



Could that solve the problem?

[kiki231]

Hey Mawler
I have the old Motion Pro merc tool, and the new carbtune. There has always been a lot of shaky reads on the mercury ones, and the carbtune is sooooo smooth. My "after hours" shop specializes in synchronizing, valve adjustments, and (for the old bikes) carb work.

I do , on average, 2 synchro's a week in the summer, and i am 100% behind the morgan tool. I cant believe i waited as long as i did to buy it. You really notice the difference when you work on big bore bikes like the VTR. The merc models REALLY bounce.

Carbtune not only has the line dampers, but i think the natural static friction of the rods in the tubes really slows it down. The first time i used it i thought something was wrong, so i switched back to my merc model, and tried different tubes on different ports... the morgan was actually more accurate!!! the merc model was reading almost perfect readings across all 4, even as i switched tubes, they were consistent. But when i flipped to the carbtune, there was a slightly wider variation, (which i verified with a flip).

I am known as captain cheapo around these parts (which is probably why i am so busy!!) but this is another area where, for me, and the volume of work i do, it didn't pay to short cut it. And with my 12 year old boy doing more and more of the work, the mercury gives me the willys...

[thatkid]

kiki a man after my own heart, I hate spending money but to me time is money, before I got my bike I'd only ever synchronised 2 carbs (car engines), anyways she ran kinda shitty. I looked at the options, bare in mind this was long before I joined this forum. The simple and least expensive choice was the Morgan Carbtune Pro, I also bought the carry pouch. It wasn't until the Carbtune arrived, that I realised the importance of the dampers.

I balanced the carbs, it took around 45 mins start to finish (including removing the tank cover/tank), I've read of people taking 2 days and 2 tanks of Petrol (Gas) using the other options available. I've used the Carbtune twice and consider it money well spent, F#@k me 2 tanks of Petrol (in the UK) would be more than the cost of the Carbtune . Not to mention 2 days synchronising carbs would have me laid up for several days (creaky back).

Before you ask, yes I do get royalties from sales

I'd like to see improvements to the home made synch tools, One of which IMO would be the dampers. Those dampers could save lots of time and money (Gas)

Opinions?

Mal.

[fzrbrandon]

+1 on the Morgan CarbTune. I used it to sync my 400 and it worked like a charm. I think I spent about 20 minutes or so on actual synchronizing. I want to throw it on my 600 as well but the sync screws are situated really awkardly so I'll need to figure that out first (the 400 screws are MUCH easier to get at).

[thatkid]

Yeah it's much faster getting the YZF tank off, opposed to the tank cover, then the stock tank. When I first synced the carbs (stock tank) IIRC I unbolted the fuel pump from the tank and placed the tank where the riders seat would be, no need for a temp tank, worked great. I was guna keep hold of the tank for that purpose.

Last time I disconnected the fuel filter from the tank (now a T-Cat tank) spun it 180 degrees, unbolted the fuel pump (the fuel hoses kinked slightly) and placed it again facing backwards where the riders seat would be, I do have an after market fuel pump tho, and long fuel hoses.

As for dampers on the home made tool, would/could additional mig welding tips positioned 10cm/4" into the tubes serve the same purpose? From what I've read they come in pack of 10, so if anyone has any spare it's a free experiment that certainly won't do any harm.

Come on someone give it a go

Mal.

EDIT: Nice move, XXXXXXXXX in deleting your post, which I replied to. It makes me look dumb very smart for a Moderator