Torque Vs. Horse Power

[space_weazel]

Ok I know we did a whole song and dance a while ago, but I like to tinker so help me understand this....

An FZR600 yosh pipe and individual pod filters has yielded me a bike that I think has a little more HP but I think it may have suffered a loss of torque I would like to get that torque back and I am willing to sacrifice the HP to do it. Some stated that the stock air box with the K&N filter gave them better street performance, i.e. better acceleration at lower speeds, I am guessing this is attributed to lower overall HP but higher torque or at least a shift of torque in the powerband,

What I was thinking about doing was getting a stock box and a K&N filter for it, keeping the pipe and retuning, I know it has a jet kit in it, I am just wondering in your experience can the jet kit be tuned to a place that the stock box and pipe will work or do I need to track down stock needles as well?

Thanks

[3LK1-FZR]

well from what i know torque is gained by a stock air box and stock header. i would recomend a stock air box with a k & N and a slip on exhuast. i know that the stage 1 jet kits are more for a stock/slightly modified motor....

[mossy1200]

my yoshi set up has gained torque and hp.The thing is when i first fitted yoshi i lost 7hp before dyno tune.
My midrange and bottom end is the largest gain even though i dropped my exup system. 5hp up bottom,8hp up midrange,6hp up top end and holds it longer.
Torque is up 15% (figures are on fzr1000)
To get pods working at their potential with the yoshi you must get dyno jet kit.
The dyno jet kit(stage 3) or equivalent blocks an air jet and let all the pressure get sucked up the venture .Now that the mixture is going up the venture the jet sizes need to be smaller as the suction is greater.Now that this is happening you need the shaped needles to make the mid range correct.(part of kit)
First step is to tune the correct jet for top end power(main jet)then adjust the needle height for mid range and cross over into top end.Then adjust mixture to suit.You can get close without dyno but then your still only 90%.
If you not doing this your just getting 80% of the bikes potential.Base settings on kit are just a starting point.
I tried no air box and yoshi but it was good top end but nothing else was any good.What was happening was the slides wouldnt open to match the mixtures.

[space_weazel]

Currently I have good top end as you describe, but off the line it feels slow and in the mid rpm's while it will pull it seems like it pulled harder with the dual pods and a richer tuning than it does now with individual pods and a leaner tuning.
I really want the low end torque back since my plans to race with it are likely not going forward. It seemed like the easiest thing I could do is to go back to a stock airbox and re tune, but it would be frustrating if I needed to go get stock needles after putting it all back together.

Who runs their bike with a slip on and a stock airbox? do you have stock needles or do you have aftermarkets that work? I think my needles are Dynojets but I would need to double check that.

I originally got the bike with dual k&N pods the yosh slip on and it had the aftermarket needles and 135 main jets, when one of the K&N's failed I got the individual pods and as some of you remember fought with the carbs for a while before (with some great help here) figured out that I needed to go leaner one clip on the needle and step down to a 125 main.

[mossy1200]

they always run better with dual pods.
The stage three kit blocks air jets with a plug filter side.
Both stage one(with air box)and stage three (pods) both use same needles so you wont need stock needles.
If it has plugs you will need to get them out for airbox.if you plan to keep swapping it arround you will need to change main jets to a base figure that you are happy with each time.you will need to thread the air jets and fit grub screw instead of plugs so you can get them in and out.
remeber no plugs means the jet size will be different as the carbs work differently with out them.
Your needle height depicts the change over from midrange to top end.
it is most likely you are running lean on your needles because you fitted to large main jets.lower the size of main then raise your needle height.
this will beef your bottom and mid range at a small cost to the very top end.
you then need to adjust your mixture for the extrem bottom end.finally adjust your idle speed .if your mixture is correct then your bike should hold a very slow idle without conking out.Once its doing that turn the idle back up.I always have my iside carb mixture up 1/4 turn from the outers.this makes them slightly richer and evens up the cylinder temps slightly.

[space_weazel]

they always run better with dual pods.
.........it is most likely you are running lean on your needles because you fitted to large main jets.lower the size of main then raise your needle height.
this will beef your bottom and mid range at a small cost to the very top end.
you then need to adjust your mixture for the extreme bottom end.finally adjust your idle speed .if your mixture is correct then your bike should hold a very slow idle without conking out.Once its doing that turn the idle back up.I always have my inside carb mixture up 1/4 turn from the outer.this makes them slightly richer and evens up the cylinder temps slightly.

It was set up with the dual pods with 130 mains and the clip at position 2 when I went to the individual pods I had a lot of trouble getting any mid range, the bike would run up to about 30-40 mph and then stop pulling, and the bike would act like it was flooding(which it was, as the mid turned out to be too rich), I eventually leaned the needle out one clip and put in a 125 main and it had run fine and it has not been cooking the plugs(not too lean).
You are suggesting that I go back one step to the richer setting on the needle and then lean out the main jet by how much? 120's 115's 110's? This could possibly bring back the umph in the low end?

Or should I suck it up and go get a set of the dual pods?
I'm aiming for maximum torque in the low to midrange.

Thanks for all the help!

[reelrazor]

Put the airbox back on it. jet to stage 1.


get some adjustable cam sprockets ($52 from falicon) and degree the cams and retard the intake a couple degrees and advance the exhaust cam.

Advance the ignition five degrees.

Go romping around with your improved bottom end.

[ragedigital]

I ran a stock air box with a K&N filter, V&H Supersport exhaust, DJ 130 mains, new FP emulsion tubes (4th clip from top) - it ran the best ever with that combo.

Too bad the stock front end couldn't handle the hard braking at the Track Day.

darrin

[space_weazel]

Edited to correct original dual pod set up had 130 mains, and the needles are definitely Dyno Jet needles.

[space_weazel]

Whelp, I sucked it up and got new dual pods, and set the needle back one richer and put 135's in, I seem to have lost one of my 130's [Arrrrggg]
Bike it much better in the low end, and more driveable on the street, I am now contemplating the "sum of all parts" gear and chain swap to a 15/50 set up. just to get a little more umph, opinions?

[mossy1200]

Whelp, I sucked it up and got new dual pods, and set the needle back one richer and put 135's in, I seem to have lost one of my 130's [Arrrrggg]
Bike it much better in the low end, and more driveable on the street, I am now contemplating the "sum of all parts" gear and chain swap to a 15/50 set up. just to get a little more umph, opinions?

I put the vortex max acceleration kit on my 1000 and its the quickest bike to corner one on the track.It made a massive difference to acceleration and I lost about 10mphr top speed but gained a second on the track times.
The 600 kit does not contain the x ring chain so would suggest you ask for the upgrade in chain type.
The 600 kit has a slightly downgraded chain because of less power.Extra 15 bucks to upgrade i think.
i found sum of all parts very quick to deliver the goods unlike bumbandit(im still grumbling).