Running on 3 cylinders | 96 FZR 1000

[noodlemonkey]

Make sure you didn't kink a fuel line, I do this all the time on my old Ducati.


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You sir - Are a genius - Didn't even think of checking for that - Standby whilst I go check

[Jordan_Ciaramitaro]

Lol, not a genius just a Ducati owner which means I get to fix a lot of stuff .


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[Stig]

If you were running std carbs and it was bogging down then I'd take a look at wear in the emulsion tubes causing it to run rich at the bottom end and bog under load. Sorry haven't had any dealing with flat slides to be able to advise.

[noodlemonkey]

Lol, not a genius just a Ducati owner which means I get to fix a lot of stuff .


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I believe the older Ducati's need some regular TLC,

If you were running std carbs and it was bogging down then I'd take a look at wear in the emulsion tubes causing it to run rich at the bottom end and bog under load. Sorry haven't had any dealing with flat slides to be able to advise.

Hi Stig - Yesterday, I took the carbs off once again to double check to see what the emulsion tubes looked like - I cannot see any wear or oval'ing within them, although i also dont have the tools to get down to the nitty gritty's

As an update though - it seems i have an air leak, which is causing issues - how I found the air leaks - When the bikes at idle - I took a can of quick start with an extension tube on the can nozzle and sprayed heavily around the intake tubes - keep in mind I have an extended piece between the standard intake rubbers and the carbs themselves - the previous owner decided to use 2 sets of standard FZR1000 intake runners and a piece of aluminium tubing - probably about 4cm in length - So its the standard intake manifold, intake rubber, piece of aluminium tubing, another intake rubber and then the carbs themselves - this is on each cylinder - Which means, endless possibilities as to where its leaking air,

This is what I've done to try fix the air leaks - The upper intake rubbers, the ones which are connected to the carbs and to the aluminium tubing have been replaced - the lower rubbers were on their way out - so i replaced them with the original upper rubbers i took off when replacing them - Just to make double sure they cannot leak - I used a bit of black gasket maker and left them over night to dry,

This morning - Tried the bike again - although it seems there is still a small air leak between the carbs and the rubber - although after tightening them a bit more - I'm going to try again - This mornings test seemed to have been more successful than before,

Any input or thoughts are greatly appreciated.

[noodlemonkey]

Quick question - If my valve clearance were out slightly - would it effect the bike? also - lets say hypothetically - my timing is out by lets say 1 tooth, retarded or advanced - would the bike run, rev and do what it needs to do, or would it hit valves and would you notice it indefinitely?

Thanks in advance

[Jordan_Ciaramitaro]

I just got mine firing on all 4 cylinders after checking valve clearances and reinstalling cams. Someone had been in there likely to check the valve clearance and I am pretty sure the cams were installed incorrectly.

I used a crayon to make marks on the chain and sprockets just as a secondary reference. When I reinstalled them using the "T" and cam dots it starting firing on all 4 cylinders and is rideable now.

Before, it would run on 2 cylinders until revved and it was very slow and laggy, backfires with flames etc.

I can't say for sure the cams were out of time because I didn't check it before taking it apart, but considering my marks wouldn't line up I am pretty sure they were out of time.


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[noodlemonkey]

I just got mine firing on all 4 cylinders after checking valve clearances and reinstalling cams. Someone had been in there likely to check the valve clearance and I am pretty sure the cams were installed incorrectly.

I used a crayon to make marks on the chain and sprockets just as a secondary reference. When I reinstalled them using the "T" and cam dots it starting firing on all 4 cylinders and is rideable now.

Before, it would run on 2 cylinders until revved and it was very slow and laggy, backfires with flames etc.

I can't say for sure the cams were out of time because I didn't check it before taking it apart, but considering my marks wouldn't line up I am pretty sure they were out of time.


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Thanks Jordan_Ciaramitaro - Although the bike seems to be bogging more than anything else - no backfiring, nor flames. Any suggestions as to why it would bog, considering I've made no major fueling changes to the carbs.

Also - I'm getting a bit confused - within the service manual - the timing marks show as H I T and the "I" is for cam timing, although Jordan_Ciaramitaro you've just mentioned you used the "T"

Thanks in advance.

[Jordan_Ciaramitaro]

I am pretty confident I used the T, however, I always check for TDC with a straw in #1 cylinder.

Try running it and put your hand over each carb, feel for vacuum, and observe the idle and carb behavior( should pull a lot of fuel in)

May help point you in the right direction.

A lot of people hate these carbs, but when tuned right they are nice.

After much grief with the Ducati, I installed a wideband o2 sensor kit and easily tuned it. I am running open headers into 5" resonator and high comp Pistons, and it makes power way down low and pulls hard significantly past redline which I do quite frequently on that bike

I think you and I both have carb tuning issues. Oh, and the emulsion tube wear isn't always obvious to the naked eye either.


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[Jordan_Ciaramitaro]

Okay, so I just took my bike on a 8 hour rode trip. Pretty much the first time I have rode it as I just bought it 9/19. Mine also bogs until about 4000 or so rpm. In order to take off you pretty much need to launch the bike like you are drag racing.

I of course brought along tools on my trip, therefore, was able to gather a load of data. Here is what I have concluded which may help you.

Mainly, the emulsion tubes are letting too much fuel in at low throttle. There is wear on the tubes, but I also believe the 23 year old slide springs are not what they used to be allowing the slides to open too far to soon.

I combatted this when I needed to cruise around town by lowering the needle to the first clip, and removing the plastic spacer. Which allowed me to easily put around the tourist town we were visiting without doing 4K rpm launches.

On the way home we were going to hit some higher speeds 75-80mph. With the needles dropped so low the bike would not hardly run at all at highway speed. So I reinstalled the plastic spacer and raised the needle to the second notch. This was a great compromise, I was able to reasonably take off from a stop and cruise at highway speed though you could tell it was a little lean.

The carbs aren't balanced, I just did it quickly by feeling engine vacuum at each carb with my hand.(not a recommended process, but I have a lot of experience with this and these particular carbs.) additionally the float heights are not equal. This phenomenon is new to me. I set them at 14mm and they over flow. 15mm and they overflow, 16 mm and they overflow. About 17 mm and #2 carb is out even further than that before it would stop overflowing, tried a set of used but known good float needles and same thing. Check the fuel height using the bowl drain and they are not the same. I didn't have any more time before I our trip to fix the fuel height but they are close.

So while float height and carb sync need to be corrected, I know 100% my bogging is caused by too much fuel too soon. And it is due to worn emulsion tubes.

Not sure where I am going to source emulsion tubes from yet, factory pro does have nickle plated ones, but I do not feel confident nickel plating would add significant life to an emulsion tube. Nothing against factory pro, I love their parts, and info is priceless.

I replaced the emulsion tubes in my Ducati which were worn at 4500 miles, with ones from Siriusconinc and have over 15k miles on them without issue. It's actually one of the smoothest running carbed 900ss I have seen and it has significant mods.

Long story short, double check your float heights, and emulsion tubes. Look closely at how much fuel is going into the engine at idle.


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[noodlemonkey]

So just a quick update - Managed to find an expert with these Keihin FCR carbs and have sent the bike in for checking and tuning - it seems they've become problematic, also without the correct know-how and tools you're snookered with these carbs.

Excited none-the-less to get it back and will report back with what they found

[Stig]

I'm I. The process of doing a group buy for emulsion Toobs and needles. They're mikuni items from an authorised supplier in the uk. I don't mind posting overseas if you're interested

http://www.exup1000.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=13580

[noodlemonkey]

I'm I. The process of doing a group buy for emulsion Toobs and needles. They're mikuni items from an authorised supplier in the uk. I don't mind posting overseas if you're interested

http://www.exup1000.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=13580

Thanks Stig - Although do the emulsion tubes look like this

[TomcatMJ]

They're mikuni items from an authorised supplier in the uk.

Huh? Mikuni Parts for the threadstarters Keihin FCR Carburators? Sounds a bit irritating

[Stig]

Not sure where I am going to source emulsion tubes from yet, factory pro does have nickle plated ones, but I do not feel confident nickel plating would add significant life to an emulsion tube. Nothing against factory pro, I love their parts, and info is priceless.


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Sorry thought Jordan was referring to FZR1000 EXUP

[TomcatMJ]

Not sure where I am going to source emulsion tubes from yet, factory pro does have nickle plated ones, but I do not feel confident nickel plating would add significant life to an emulsion tube. Nothing against factory pro, I love their parts, and info is priceless.


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Sorry thought Jordan was referring to FZR1000 EXUP

Sure, but with Keihin FCRs as Modification instead of the original Mikunis..and FacPro also has FCR Parts in the Catalogue ...seems that was one reason for the confusion.
Maybe that, if the Problem seems unsolvable after check by his Keihin Specialists, he might better get some original Carbs for getting the Bike running well (and then having more relaxed time to find a proper solution / a Problemsolver for the FCRs)